[00:00:00] Speaker A: You are listening to the Recovering Fundamentalist Podcast, where faith and real life collide in a world full of noise, division and debate. We're here to cut through the clutter with honest conversations, bold truth, and a whole lot of grace. Whether you're questioning, growing, or just trying to make sense of it all, you've got a seat at the table. Let's join JC Groves for today's episode. Let's go.
[00:00:38] Speaker B: The Recovering Fundamentalist Podcast starts in three.
[00:00:41] Speaker C: You know what makes women stupid is.
[00:00:42] Speaker B: Call Jesus was not a bartender.
You have lost your mind.
[00:00:50] Speaker C: Long tongue.
[00:00:51] Speaker B: Heifers have given me a lot more.
[00:00:52] Speaker C: Trouble than heifers wearing britches.
[00:00:54] Speaker B: And you know that. Say amen right there. 1.
[00:00:57] Speaker C: Let me tell you something, bozo. They'll be selling Frosties in hell for this. Boy puts on a pair of pink underwear. I sucked my thumb till I was.
[00:01:05] Speaker A: 14 years of age.
[00:01:09] Speaker B: This is episode number 189, adapting and thriving Church planting and pastoring in a post pandemic Era. And we want to welcome you to the Recovering Fundamentalist Podcast, where we're not just recovering from bad theology, but also rethinking how to engage the world with the gospel. Today, we're diving into a conversation that a lot of pastors, a lot of church planners and leaders have been wrestling with. What does church and church planning look like after the pandemic? The truth is the landscape has changed and we're not just tweaking methods. We're reimagining what the church can and should be in a world that no longer is interested in the same old thing. Joining me today on the podcast is someone who is living this reality. Joey planted a church four months ago. He's a pastor. He's someone who's not afraid to challenge the status quo. And together, both me and Joey, who are both church planters, we're going to unpack how to plant healthy churches in a post pandemic culture. What's changed, what hasn't, and how we move forward with faith and boldness. Now it's Monday. We just came through the Easter season, and I hope that you had a great service at your church. I am actually in Indianapolis, Indiana at TGC 25. And so if you're listening to this or you're on your way to Indianapolis for the conference, I'd love to meet you, love to say hello and just put a face with the name. Be sure to come up and say hello if you're at TGC 25 in Indianapolis, Indiana.
But first, let's pay the bills. We want to thank those who sponsor the recovering fundamentalist podcast Mission University. In 1950, Mission University was founded with the mission of training Christ following leaders to tell the world about Jesus. The mission has remained the same through the years. Today they're continuing to teach to train and prepare great leaders to make a difference with their life. Mission U educates, inspires and equips students to serve as effective Christian leaders. We'd love for you to get with past president Mark Milioni. Find them at mission. Edu. I want to thank Josh Barzone over at Barzone Designs professional and affordable logo and graphic design for churches businesses. More, of course. We have partnered with Tyndale Publishers to give away a new Living Translation Premium Bible on May 25th. Super excited about that. May 1st, you can check out our social media, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and TikTok and we're going to be giving away there. I've also partnered with a new Bible publisher called Humble Lamb and I'm excited. Humble Lamb has sent me the new Living Sunrise Bible for those that will be watching. Well, we're not doing video this week, but this is the word of God. It's a yellow with blue ribbon. Super excited about this. Look up Humble Lamb. And this one is coming later in the summer. We're going to be doing this giveaway here. All right. Like I said in our introduction today, we have a special guest with us today. This is a church planner, a friend, someone who is not a stranger to the Recovering Fundamentalist podcast. In fact, years ago, Joey was the only one that reached out and shared his story on this Is My Story podcast. And it's still up. Joey, you're still famous on that podcast as the only one that shared your story. And I just personally want to thank you for reaching out and for doing that.
[00:04:40] Speaker C: Absolutely. It was an honor to do it and grateful for the ministry you guys have done using this platform.
[00:04:45] Speaker B: I love it. Well, Joey, introduce yourself. You're a church planner in Florida. Tell us a little bit about who you are.
[00:04:52] Speaker C: Yes, my name is Joey Presuti and I have the honor of pastoring and planting Gather Church. We're a new church plant, four months in St. John's County, Florida. Husband to my beautiful high school sweetheart, Taylor. We have three girls and I'm also an attorney by trade, so I practice law in Jacksonville, Florida, and then also plant and planted and pastoring Gather Church. So, yeah, it's, it's been a fun ride the last four months. It's been really good.
[00:05:20] Speaker B: Four months in on this thing. Man, that's exciting.
[00:05:23] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:05:24] Speaker B: Let's see. We're 31 months in on our church plant here in North Georgia. So I'm just a little bit ahead of the road of you. But church planting is exciting. You know what I think about church planting?
It never really was something that I intended to do. I had been part of church. I've been pastoring since 2000. But church planting was not something that was ever this desire that I had. Did you have the desire to plant a church or how did God get you to this point where you planted Gather church?
[00:05:53] Speaker C: Yeah. So about 10 years ago, my life changed. My wife and I went to an Acts 29 church, a network that is all about planting churches. And this church was a church plant. And our lives changed just by hearing the gospel. Kind of having recovered from the IFB background and then going into this gospel center culture, it changed my life and just fell in love with the gospel and the gospel of grace more than ever. And over time I desire to for pastoring began. But what I started finding was how do I discern between pastoring and planting. I thought that was all the same thing and I didn't fully understand that. So about five years ago I started really thinking through this idea, felt called to maybe one day plant a church. But my wife wasn't ready yet. And so if my wife wasn't ready, I wasn't ready. And so I ultimately went to, I left the church that changed our lives to go and get some training for four years and just really serve from the sidewalks to pastor or preaching and being ordained there. Just really getting my heart kind of opened up to see is God calling us to go reaching people? Is God calling us to plant a church? And once I realized the sort of entrepreneurial spirit and the vigor you have to have to plant, I realized there was a huge distinction between pastoring and planting. And about two years ago it was very obvious that my wife and I felt called to go. I felt ready to plant and God was working. And so that was when we went ahead and made decision and began the process of planting Gather Church.
[00:07:19] Speaker B: That's awesome. You know we. I say I've never had the desire to plant a church. It was not something that when I looked at the grand scheme of what God was going to do in my life, had this thought that we're going to plant Hope church, student ministry, college ministry, campus pastoring at a multi site church for 10 years. But it became very evident back in 22, the summer of 22, that God was calling us to do Something there was this desire to help our community, to be part of our community. I love Catoosa County. Folks on here on the podcast have heard me talk about this many times. And I've been to Utah, came back, been to South Georgia, came back. I can't get away from here. And when we were going to Plant Hope Church, the only thing that was in my mind was this. The story of Nehemiah, how he was serving as the king's cup bearer, but his heart was in Jerusalem with the people because the gates were torn down, the walls were destroyed, they had no protection, and all he wanted to do was see them prosper. And, man, every time I thought about this county, Catoosa County, I was like, that's where my heart is. I'm grieved. I'm in Salt Lake City, Utah, watching videos of North Georgia, and just like God, I really want to serve there. We didn't know that coming back and planting a church, because let's be honest, just like Florida, there are hundreds of thousands of churches. I say this all the time. Like, I mean, you drive past 15 churches to get here, you know. But that's why we wanted to plant a church that is not just a building where you gather, but it is a family following the way of Jesus together, who's going to live by faith, be known by love, and be a voice of hope to the community around them. And so I think that the differences in that. Where mine was more of like God said, you're going to do this, There wasn't necessarily that desire to do it, but, man, 31 months in, almost two years in, I can think of nothing else that I would rather be doing than planting a local church and watching it thrive and watching it grow. Now I'm interested. You said Acts 29. Did you go through an assessment process? What was that process like to get to this point?
[00:09:27] Speaker C: Yeah, one of the things that I wanted to really determine was I wanted a good church planning network that could. That could assess me and make sure that I was ready. I felt ready, I thought I was ready. The church I was at said I was ready. But Acts 29, from my experience, was a network that had a really good assessment process. And so they were going to let me know if I was ready or not. And so I just trusted in the process. And I went through a fairly rigorous process of not just theological clarity, but also just character and integrity and really just being questioned in, interviewed, not in an interrogate interrogation sort of way, but just being questioned, being asked those really good Questions about what was motivating my desire to plant, what was preventing Taylor or motivating her to do it, and just having a chance at having some really experienced, seasoned planters and pastors just really opened my heart for me to see where. Where my failings were, but also my strengths. And through that experience, I came out on the other end having passed my assessment, going through that and making me feel more confident than ever that I was. That I was, in fact, ready to plant a church.
[00:10:30] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, Joy, I think there's a lot of guys that want to plan a church. They have this desire because it's either it's sexy to plant a church, to start something on my own, to do something, but that assessment that maybe they've been told, hey, you'll be a good preacher, and they just can't work with anybody. You know, I think there's a lot of people that are planting churches that don't necessarily need to be. Not just planting, but pastoring. You know, I mean, there is wisdom in a multitude of counselors. And I think that assessment process, even though it may not be the best or the funnest, if that's a word, to hear, it's important because that's accountability, that's growth. That's learning through a process.
So with you being with Acts 29, are you still part of a network? Like, is there accountability? How is your process set up?
[00:11:19] Speaker C: Sure, I'm with Acts 29. The churches in the Acts 29 network, we're just a church plant who also desires to plant more churches to see God work through his kingdom, through church plans. That's essentially what that means. But for me, pastorally, we believe in a board of elders. And so during our initial stages, I am the only sole pastor, but I do have an advisory board over me with men that are three men that are from either SBC and or Acts 29 backgrounds that I honor and cherish, but I would submit. I submit to. And these are men that. Acts 29 requires every church plant that launches to have their own board so that over time, we will install our own elders to replace those men and then have a board of elders. So that would hold me accountable, but also be for my good and also for the church. Right. And it's just a way. We believe that the Lord structures that of the local church. But that's how they started off. And it's been great, man. I meet with them once a month. I show them the books, I tell them all my issues, and they encourage me. They help me and they're just a text and a call away. They live in the same town I'm in as well. And so these are guys I just go hang out with and get to know. And they know me and I've known them for years. So it's just a really healthy structure to honestly hold me accountable, but to protect my family, my wife, my kids, the church, me. It's just I couldn't speak highly enough about it.
[00:12:37] Speaker B: Very important to do, you know, when we started we were part of a network, of course, the Hope Network. Many that have listened to the podcast with Brian and Nathan, we quickly got to a place where I'm just not the kind of individual that slows down and waits. Like I love pressing the ball forward and knowing what God was going to do here in Catoosa county with our first gathering, having 70 plus second gathering, 120 to launching, you know, we were, we've got to get the ball rolling. And very quickly we started working on our 501C3, our LLC, putting that board together, learning these things. As we were going quickly, probably within six months of planning Hope Church, we pulled away from that Hope Church network. Just, you know, it was more of a campus feel being a campus pastor. I said hey, you know what, I don't want to be part of a multi site church. And anytime the language, one church in multiple locations is used, that's a multi site church. And I wanted to be a pastor, not a campus pastor. And so we pulled away and made the decision here at Hope Church in Ringgold, Georgia. We just weren't part of an association, a denomination, an affiliation or a network. And so that has been an interesting road because all of our funding is 100% from within. But it has been awesome to watch putting that plurality of folks around us. So I'm not making decisions in silos. We created the hlt, the Hope Leadership Team. These are incredibly trusted men, some with ministry experience and backgrounds. Because here's something that a lot of people think when they look at a church that has planted and started and looks established. Why don't you have your leadership in place? Why don't you have elders? You know, we're brand new, you know, there's not been some enough people here long enough to prove that they could fill that role of an elder. And so we put these, this leadership team in place has been a great response to help. We've got a finance team here. We are two years in and I believe that there are some of those guys that are rising to that Role of elder. I'm excited to be putting them into place soon. That's just something that comes with time, you know, and, and. Well, I'm interested. Joey, what, what are four months in. What are some things that you had thought would be different than how they're actually going?
[00:15:01] Speaker C: Man, that's a good question.
Yeah, I think a couple things we, we just held, I mean, just last week we held an event on Maundy Thursday. And as we did that, it was a. Did our own version of that where we had just a huge response with families coming out and doing a community style event with community, you know, just demonstrating with the kids with foot washing, all this stuff. And so I think one of the things I knew, I knew how much the post pandemic world needed community. I just did not realize how much it needed it. That was part of the calling that we're such a very community people, my wife and I, our lives are changed by community. And so we've been wanting to give that to as many people as we can and gathers really that conduit that God's using to draw people to community. And to see that response in that way was incredible. I expected some of that because I knew based on the data and statistics of what people are missing since the pandemic. But this is, I think I just, I can't stress enough to people who desire to plant. The harvest is there. It is there. And the water, it just needs to be poured onto the very dry ground. And it just takes some obedience and faithfulness and just trust in the good promises of God to go out and do it. And I think just us setting up these spaces and letting people come in has meant the world to us because it fulfills that calling. But it also, it's been cool to see the Lord working. That's just been a blessing.
[00:16:26] Speaker B: Yeah, I think post pandemic culture has kind of reshaped the way that we approach church. Yes, there is this draw almost in a way to not doing traditional, established like people are looking for more of a opportunity to be engaged. We saw this especially during the pandemic we planted two years after. And it was still kind of. Still a little area. Some people were still, you know, social distancing and things like that. What we've noticed is that outward focus is a lot more attractive right now than inward focus. Doing things for the community, being the hands and feet of Jesus, not just praying for the community, but putting feet to our prayers and going out and actually serving the community. And I think, you know, I Love what you said. The. The. It's. It's harvest and ready. We just got. Pour some water on it. And some of us were a little afraid of that because there's this unknown.
It's not always exciting and booming. And as a. What's the word I'm looking for? Established church has that security. I think there's still a little bit of the unknown. And, man, people are dying for, longing for hoping for this community aspect. Life is not meant to be lived alone. It is best in the context of community. And I believe that these local bodies, these local churches rising up, creating this environment for people to come and be loved and be known. That's one of the things we're seeing here at Hope Church is it is a whole gathering of people that aren't necessarily established church, if you will. It's folks that are unchurched.
Listen, we had a guy come in here two weeks ago that has grown up right here within three miles of where we're at. He said, man, I've been to church twice in my life. I've never heard this stuff that's right here in the buckle of the Bible Belt. You know what I mean?
We think Bible Belt, Florida, Georgia, we don't need another church plant. We've got enough of these established ones here. But let's be honest, how many? Also there are 70 churches, and 20 of the 70 are running eight or 15. And it's just buildings that we're occupying. You know, one of the things that we're at this point of going in and doing is almost asking, hey, you want to partner up with us? You want to be part of what we're doing here in the movement? And there's so many different aspects and avenues that you can take. But I think, you know, this. This reshaping, this approach that we have taken to church planning, I think there's a few things that the church has adapted that we don't necessarily need to do. And I don't know if you where you stand on this, but, man, livestreaming, it seems like that's one of the things that came out of COVID that I'm kind of like, I wish that would kind of go away again. You know, a lot of churches didn't necessarily livestream beforehand, but now it's like everybody and their brother feels they have to live stream. And we're at the place we don't live stream. Do y'all. Y'all livestream?
[00:19:24] Speaker C: No. No. And that's just something in the beginning that we've decided not to do it. It's probably. It's something that we've been very intentional about because we're making a cultural statement as a church. Right. Gather story is truly about gathering people, not just for Sunday, but beyond. Right. So the idea is that we're a community that is not just a community on Sunday, but we want to enjoy life together beyond Sundays. And so if we say that's true, then I don't ever want to cheapen the experience of community by thinking you can get that on a live stream, which you cannot. And so my. My logic goes to, well, live streaming is no different than podcasts, so might as well just throw it on as a podcast, as a sermon, we do do that. That's on Spotify. But when it comes back to live streaming, I don't ever want anyone to think that coming together is the same as live streaming, because what you're going to miss are physical interactions. You're going to miss the highs, you're going to miss the smiles. You're going to miss a lot of just the authenticity in our worship and how we do things. And I really think you miss that incarnational spirit of Jesus. Right. He doesn't livestream his first coming. He doesn't, you know, virtually do anything. He physically sits and eats with people. Right. So I'm just trying to remind people, like, as a community, we are physical beings that need physically each other. And so this is just a cultural statement. I. I know some churches, a lot of churches do that. And I don't. I don't think there's a right or wrong. But I know for our context and what we're trying to do and serving, it's just part of our cultural DNA at this time. I don't know when that would ever change if it does. But we just want to stick to the fact, hey, if you want to come to church, the sermon is not just the church. Like, come hang out. Let's get to know each other. And I think that's what really, in my opinion, what we've seen, that's what people really want, is they actually want to be with other people. And so that's what we want to give them. Yeah.
[00:21:05] Speaker B: Pastor, listening to this here is your out. You can stop trying to do the life, free the life right now. There you go. Just say the rfp. You know, I. To be honest with you, I can't stop watching church services. Man, they're rough. There's a lot of rough ones out there. You know, I've been blessed to work in Two churches, churches that were high quality worship. I have never stood at my couch and worshiped with the worship team on TV though. It's just never happened.
[00:21:33] Speaker C: Well, the other thing, the other thing I would say is that one of the things that we try to do at gather really well is we try to do everything with excellence and we try to do a really good job with everything. Just, just because you're a church plant, to be honest with you, you don't have to suck, right? So that's one of the things that we tell our people and so we don't halfway do things. We want to do things to the best. And the challenge with live streaming, I even told this to our team, is if it can ever be done really, really, really well, I would consider it. But it's very hard to do it well. And so I'd rather us to do little things really, really well. And so people don't feel like we're cheapening Jesus, cheapening the bride. And so that's the other thing. As you just mentioned, I've never seen a good live stream. I've seen a couple churches with big budgets can do it and I'm glad they can do it well, but I gather we're just not gonna, we're just not doing that for the sake of doing it.
[00:22:18] Speaker B: So we have added our music a couple times, but let's be. It drives me nuts when we have because we have a YouTube go in and edit it and I'm like, it's just not the same. It doesn't sound good. And man, there are some of these churches that put their whole service on and I'm like, we, we need to quit this. Like, I mean, if I'm the non Christian watching in some of these, I'm not going there. Majority of these church services are horrible and the quality sucks. The sound, I'm just like, what are we doing here? So that's one thing. Post pandemic, if you want a tool, get rid of live feed. Like, we're not voting bach them or you know, anybody that needs to hear our sermons. Just let it happen and focus on the people that are there. I, I think that's a good one. Let me ask you this. Just thinking about new challenges, new opportunities for a lot of pastors, especially those coming out of traditional models that we grew up in. This new environment of church planting, doing things different than the norm can feel a little bit intimidating. But with this concept of doing things new comes opportunity. What do you feel are some opportunities that come with getting out of the traditional mindset of this is how we do church. Because the way you're doing church, just how you've talked about gather church is different than the cultures that we grew up in. What do you think are some of those opportunities?
[00:23:40] Speaker C: Man, I would just go back to if you're a planner and you feel called, you're called to a people, not to an institution. You're not called to even a church, you're called to a people. And so my job as the planner of my area of St. John's that I love, I live in with our people. I know what they like, I know what they struggle with. And so my goal is, if I'm loving them well, I will meet them where they are and give them what I see that they need. And what we see in our context in St. John's county, for example, a vast majority of the context where we live are all people moving from the north to the south, the west to the south. You probably see that in Georgia. It's all over the east coast and south from Georgia. Down in our area, we have thriving developments of just new people moving in. They have very similar values that a lot of southerners have. But what they're lacking from their context growing up is no gospel, no, no, no truth, no Jesus. And they want that. And so what we find is if we can get them in community, and that was a big thing we did that I think was somewhat not normal was before we started gather, we already had three, we had four small groups already going before gather. So we already made it a staple of our DNA that we're going to be gathering as a community and homes and men's groups doing events together throughout the year a year before we did it. Why that matters is because for our context, our context needs community. And so if we say that we're this thing, that we need to do this thing, but we also need to put our budget towards this thing. And so just creating these opportunities for community to thrive and flourish, that's the one thing. People come to us all the time.
We just want to get to know the people. We, we just moved here three months ago, six months ago, eight months ago, two weeks ago, a year ago. They don't know anybody. They don't nobody. And so the first thing they go to is the church. And so what a gift it is. They don't want to go to a church that no one's going to know them. They want to go to church that someone's going to know them. And so at gather, our Whole team leaders that meet people. The goal is to meet every single person so we can do that thankfully at this stage of the church. And so that's kind of something we feel like has been a little bit, not maybe as normal from what I've seen is that we're really intentional about being a community.
[00:25:52] Speaker B: Yeah, intentional. Community was the thing that we said from the beginning of Hope Church. Right. Honestly, when we started Hope Church, I wanted to start a coffee shop and just do church in that. One of the things I did during the four months of moving back from South Georgia and starting Hope Church is I literally lived at the coffee shop. Local coffee shop, mean bug, shout out. And I was living down there. And on Sundays I was actually, I'm just going to be honest, I got kind of burnt out being a first time guest at a lot of churches because a lot of churches suck with first time guests. I was like, I'm so sick of getting a dumb coffee mug or a high five or a frisbee or something like that. I'm a $5 chick fil a card. It was like incentives to come back. And so I just found myself sitting at the coffee shop on Sunday mornings and looking at this incredible group of people that are in there having conversations. There's community being had. But we're in a coffee shop on Sunday morning, not in a church building. And here in the Bible Belt they're like, well, they better turn or burn, you know what I mean? But I was like, what is happening here that these people are not in a local church? How can we take the community feel that's happening here and put that into the church? And so what we have strived to do when we moved into this new building, we went from 600 square feet of lobby space with zero community. Man, that old building, people would come in, they would stand at a slanted angle because it was a old movie theater. Our first Easter, we had a lady in a wheelchair, the brakes gave way and she started rolling down the aisle. Gives new meaning to Holy Roller right there, you know. But we moved from that building into this new building about 30 weeks ago. And we have 6,000 square feet of lobby space now. And the whole goal, the whole thought is community. We've got seating areas, we've got standing tables, we've got coffee area. And I love this, Joey. It's happened and it's been organic. Is watching people before and after. Sadly, some daring. But they're just out there standing in the lobby. People are staying an hour after church just in community I'm like, this is what we need to create. It's an environment for people to come to the church, to be part of community and to watch it grow. Now it's different, and I don't think it's at the place where I want it to be yet, but I'm loving watching the organic community begin to happen. And I think a lot of churches, we feel this, especially how we grew up. It's almost like you have to take your normal hat off and put on the church hat, or in our case, the church close and become part of who the church is. And I think what I'm loving about church plants, especially in this post pandemic era, is that church has. The method has changed to become more community and cultural sensitive to gathering people in that aren't going to those established churches that have these structures and things and they're just finding hope and they're finding life in the gospel is what is attractive. The gospel is what they're receiving. And so we've heard this said, the method changes, but the message never changes.
[00:28:55] Speaker C: That's right.
[00:28:56] Speaker B: I don't believe that just because our methods have changed. Now there are some that would believe that, but the methods change. We can't keep doing the same old same old and expect to get the same results. That's insanity. We have to change the method. And I love, I love talking to church planners and just seeing the little things that are happening there to watch it continue to grow. So let's get super practical as we wrap this up. If someone is listening today, right now, they feel this call to plant a church in 20, 25 or beyond. What are some? You gave us some a few minutes ago, but I'd love to hear from you what you think are some practical steps that they should do right now to begin this process of planting.
[00:29:37] Speaker C: Yeah, I think first off, I'm a big fan of Acts 29 for what it did to me. And so obviously there's some great networks out there other than them, but if you don't know where to go. Acts 20 is all about assessing your calling to plant. And so that's a great network to consider. If you want to reach out to me, you can always reach out to
[email protected] and I'd be happy to connect you with them. 2. I would say, man, you need to serve in your church. And I've seen some. I've seen some planners want to plant, and part of that is because they want to go rogue or independent from Their church. Part of that is because they're church hurt and they want to go create a church out of revenge or spite. That won't get you anywhere. It won't be healthy, it won't be blessed. And you may get a lot of people, but you won't be happy. And so I tell people all the time, you need to serve. Like, you need to go to your church. The best planter is one who's already served at an existing church. Submerse yourself in the culture. See what it's like to be a pastor of sheep. Watch how your pastor and serve under him. And by doing, by doing that, it just allows you to get ready for some crazy stuff down the road. In planting. I also would just tell people, man, you know, I think just pray. I know it seems really super practical, but just pray. Is God calling, like, if I wasn't a planter, is that okay? Am I. Is my identity lost into something? And four years of my journey of really discerning that call between pastoring at a church and planting a church, a lot of that came down to, you know, is my identity wrapped up in preaching or is it wrapped up in being a son of the king? And that's it. And so really trying to get my mind because how you, how you act that identity out will affect the church you ultimately plan. Right? And so I would just encourage people, man, ask your spouse, if they're not ready, you're not ready. It's just that simple. And so if they're not ready, then you need to walk with them and realize that that is God's sovereignty working in your spouse to tell you you're not ready just yet. But be sure to, man, trust your church, trust the local church, Submit them to your leadership. Good, healthy leadership is always worth and worthy of your support. And those are just some. Yeah, some quick things. I'd love to talk to anybody who's interested. I've gone through that. I've gone through the question of that. I've been under some great men who have led me well and helping me discern and just have a big vision, a big, bold vision. And don't. And just don't fall for what everybody else tells you to do. Like part of the church planting. It's kind of like there's a textbook out there somewhat, that's true. But no, no, like, you've got to. You've got to be called to a people. And those people have to so inspire you that you think about them, that you pray for them, that you're thinking of what God could do to that land through his power in you. And so if you're not feeling that, then, like, maybe you just. You're not ready yet. And so that was just be a couple things that we just encourage people with. Yeah.
[00:32:29] Speaker B: You know, I love what you just said. There's not really a textbook. It's funny, I had a conversation the other day with some church planners, and they're like, groves, you literally threw the textbooks out with how you started Hope Church. I'm like, I know. Don't follow my way. We just leave it. Living on faith there. I do think some of the things you said, I want to echo on. But start with people. The first thing is you start with people. One of the. You know, I believe that God's will is practical, not mystical. And sometimes for those that are listening, you're like, should I be a church planner? Should I do this? Should I go into any ministry? Should I move from this position? I think sometimes what we want to do is we want to hear the audible voice of God, and it would be so much easier if he would just tell us from a voice from heaven. This is what you should do. But what I've learned in my life is that God's will is practical. It's not mystical. Things will line up, things will happen, and God will show that. One of the things that we saw when we started Hope Church is we had five families that said, we are on board. We will go all in with you. We are with you heart and soul. Let's do this. And those five families are still with us. They're still in this process. Their heart and soul. They are all in. They are. There's no questions or doubts or fears or worries that they're gonna get upset. They're gonna walk away. You know, they are. They are with us. And they have helped with funding. They have helped with volunteering. They have been literally the foundation that we've started building on. Of course, the Word of God, prayer, those things are vital. But people. It's people, not programs. People, not programs. And too many times, what we tend to do, especially in cultures we grew up in, you go to programs, awana mops, you do what? You start adding programs. But what you're doing is. It's just like you're adding a bunch of stuff, and it's fluff. It looks good. But programs take money. Money takes people. It's just hard. You focus on people, not programs. You got to embrace flexibility. You got to be flexible to be a church planner. It's not always going to go the way that you think it's going to go. One of the greatest lessons I ever received. Joey, when I was in college, first day of Bible school, our professor, Dr. Jerry hall, down in Dothan, Alabama. Now I was sitting up there, he had us all show up in suits and ties. We're preacher boys, Independent fundamental Bible ready to go. We got a big old King James version, Bibles. He said, all right, guys. It's August in Chattanooga, Tennessee, at Tennessee Temple University. He takes us to the dumpster behind the Lee Robertson center with brooms and rakes and shovels. He says, we're cleaning this up today, bro. It smelled. It was hot. We were sweaty. He said, what did y'all learn today? We're like, that. It's hot. He said, you're gonna plant churches, you're gonna pastor churches, you're gonna think they're gonna be this way and that something else is gonna come. Pastoring a church is not just standing on stage with your brand new suit and Bible. It's embracing flexibility and being able to do what God has called you to do. I think another thing is don't plant alone. Get some good people around you. Accountability. Great men are made with accountability, and good men become nothing with a lack of accountability. Get some people around you that will go through the fire with you, that will hold your hands up, that will cover you in prayer. One of the things that I appreciate the most about our HOPE Leadership team here. Joey, Jason, James, Jeremy, they all start with Jay, Charlie, and Joe. One of the things I love about these six men is that they cover me and this church in prayer. And that's one of the things, always doing prayer and that, that's the main thing that they do. And then there's accountability, then there's decisions. So we're not making these decisions in silos. And I think that that is a huge step there. And then the biggest thing, lean into the spirit, not strategy. You will get overwhelmed with strategies. There are so many books and blogs and podcasts on strategies on how to plant a church. Lean into the spirit. God has called you to be who you are, to plant that church. Lean into the spirit, gather. Church with Joey is totally different than Hope Church with jc. God has called both of us to plant a church, and I can't be Joey. Joey can't be jc. You be who God's called you to be and plant that church. And listen, if you're. If you're listening to this podcast today and you feel that tug, that pull Joey gave you his information there. I would love for you to come to North Georgia and be part of our Hope Church residency here in Ringgold, Georgia. Super excited. May 3rd, we have a new couple that is moving here. They're our first couple in the Hope Church residency, Logan and Brook Meyer. They're moving here from from Asheville, North Carolina. They're going to be part of a two year Hope Church residency with us. Both of these young people have gone through Bible school. They feel God calling them into ministry. They just don't know where or what that looks like. And so we're bringing them on. They're going to be practically staffed with us here. But maybe you're listening to this. You're in college, you're out of college, you and your family, you feel this call and you just want to do what Joey said. Get under the work there and begin to work. We'd love for you to look it up. Look us up. You can shoot me an email. Jchopechurchkatusa.com Catoosa is spelled C A T O O S a j c hopechurch catoosa.com and we will send you all the information on our Hope Church residency. I'd love for you to come and be part of that with us there. Joey, thanks for being on the podcast, man. I'm excited for what God's doing there in Florida in your church. I've loved watching it from this side of the screen and hope to get down there and be with you someday.
[00:37:54] Speaker C: Yeah, man, appreciate the honor. Excited for you as well. Continue to follow the Lord and continue to lead your people.
[00:37:59] Speaker B: That's good, man. And I know we're recording this on Friday, but I hope you have an incredible Easter.
[00:38:04] Speaker C: Absolutely. You too.
[00:38:05] Speaker B: But hey, here's another thing. Don't ever plan a church on Easter.
[00:38:08] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:38:09] Speaker B: Because you're gonna be real disappointed seven days later when nobody shows up. You're gonna be like, what is going on? Well, Joey, thanks so much for being here with us today. Your voice and your experience are exactly what has been needed in this moment for this conversation. We're praying for you and continuing to pray that God will continue to bless Gather church there to all of our listeners. If you're thinking about planting a church, rebuilding one, or just trying to figure out how to reach people. The world has changed, but the mission has not changed. As always, make sure to subscribe. Share this Episode Leave a review it helps us keep spreading the word. Thanks for listening to the Recovering Fundamentalist Podcast.
[00:38:44] Speaker C: Podcast.
[00:38:44] Speaker B: We'll catch you next time. Love you kids.
