Episode Transcript
[00:00:09] Speaker A: Hey, everybody.
[00:00:10] Speaker B: Thanks for tuning in to the recovering fundamentalist podcast, episode number 175. We're your host, Brian Nathan. I'm JC. Fellas, it's been a minute. How in the world are you, man?
[00:00:23] Speaker C: It has been a while. We. We're doing this once a month, but it feels like once a year. I miss getting together with you guys every week. So, uh, it seems like it's been forever, but it's only been about three and a half weeks. So, I mean, here we are recording again, but glad to be back, doing really good. A lot has happened since the last time we recorded. I know. In all of our lives and our churches. And I'm going to be sharing a little bit tonight about some of the travels I've been doing. But, uh, we'll get to that a little bit later. But, yeah, doing great. My family's doing well. They're actually in Chattanooga right now. And I'm going to, uh. I didn't tell you this, JC. I'm coming to do a wedding. I have a rehearsal dinner Friday night and a wedding on Saturday. And then I've got to hustle back and be back for Easter Sunday morning. Cause we're having a morning service on Easter and so on Easter weekend.
[00:01:19] Speaker A: I've never heard of such a thing.
[00:01:22] Speaker B: Christians. I'm just kidding.
[00:01:25] Speaker C: They're good kids, man. I love them.
[00:01:27] Speaker A: Nathan, I've got a question. Is the. Is the image behind you, is the picture on the wall behind you? Is that an endorsement of a flat earth? I mean, are you trying to communicate something that is at.
[00:01:38] Speaker C: If you look closely, it's around Earth. Yeah. It's got the globe there. Yeah, it's around Earth. It's just split the way that they have to split it. But I see two corners, though.
Well, we could. We could add that. That could be a part of our discussion tonight.
[00:01:55] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:01:55] Speaker C: Go to the four corners of the earth and make your.
[00:01:58] Speaker B: With your living room there, though. It's pretty nice.
[00:02:01] Speaker C: Yeah, I like it. This is my new office, JC.
[00:02:05] Speaker A: I'm doing good too, man. As a matter of fact, you know, just logging on to record this podcast tonight. I'm already. I'm really encouraged by you, JC. You. You don't even know this, but you've already been a blessing. You know, this past Sunday, we celebrated Palm Sunday, and then right behind you, there's the palm branches. And so you're making me think Hosanna in the highest. And then to your left, you've got that really neat little candle that's flickering. And so I'm trapped somewhere between crying out Hosanna and singing Kumbaya. So you have already been a blessing.
[00:02:41] Speaker B: Just set the mood, buddy. Just set the mood. It's kind of like Miami Vice back here.
[00:02:45] Speaker C: I like it. Yeah, it looks nice.
[00:02:47] Speaker B: Goodness. Well, it has been. I can't believe it's only been three weeks. It does feel like it's been longer, you know, not getting on and recording every week. It's. It's definitely been a change, but, uh, I enjoy the pace. And, you know, we. We would have been close to 200 episodes now, but episode 175, it's crazy that we're there already. It five years in. I know we talk about how long we've been doing this podcast, but, you know, guys, we talk about it all the time, how folks listen. And some folks are joining us at the very first episode, summer in the middle summer, you know, just picking up and listening to, like, the last episode or things like that. And, uh, we are encouraged every time you reach out and let us know that you are listening to the recovering fundamentalist podcast, we'd love for you to reach out. You can go to recoveringfundamentalist.org, click on the share your story tab, and you can share your story there. Many have done that. You don't even have to necessarily share your story. You could just leave an encouraging word or how the podcast has helped you on your journey.
[00:03:50] Speaker A: Hey, speaking of that, JC, I've got something to share. Just such an incredible blessing. You know, we've always said this as a ministry, that that's why we do this, first of all, because we have a heart for Jesus and we have a heart for people.
And a few days ago, my dad called me.
He had a gentleman walk up to him at the close of a service, invited my dad, my mom out to lunch, and over lunch, he started sharing his story.
He had been through some incredible church hurt, legitimate church hurt, true, authentic disappointment. And, you know, guys, let's be honest. Sometimes believers are disappointed by what they find in church culture, and it can be devastating. Well, he was one of those people. He had gotten completely out of church, said he had completely, for years, stopped reading the Bible, um, wanted nothing to do with that. And it just so happened he had been hurt in a fundamentalist environment. And so someone pointed him to the recovering fundamentalist podcast. He started listening. He said the recovering fundamentalist podcast became his church. Wow. That he lived waiting for every episode. He started diving into every episode, and he said, as he listened to episodes and we shared various things, that he found himself back in God's word, God has fully, completely restored his life, has renewed his passion for Jesus Christ. And in tears, he told my dad that he would not be where he is right now in his spiritual journey if it weren't for the recovering fundamentalist podcast. And, you know, we always joke around and we have a good time, and along the way we've said things we shouldn't and we've struggled through some episodes, but how cool is it that God has used this gospel work and there are people out there who are authentically changed?
Praise God, man.
[00:05:58] Speaker C: That's incredible, Brian. It just reminds me of when we were at the ordination service yesterday for Gavin. As I was praying for him, one of the prayers that kept being repeated in my mind and my heart was that God would use him to plant the seed of the gospel and that, that his, his life would impact many people and that the, the gospel would accomplish the purpose that God sent it out for. And as I was verbalizing that, that asking God to do that, I realized I was just praying scripture and he promised he would do that. And so it was just encouraging. It's almost like God was like that, that prayer is definitely going to be answered because the, the word never returns void in, you know, we're not perfect. We've never pretended to be perfect, but we love the gospel. We love God's word. We're trying to faithfully serve our families and serve as pastors. And I'm just, I'm humbled and thankful that God has used us to reach some people out there and man, to, to see revival happen in this guy's life and complete restoration just.
That's incredible.
[00:07:13] Speaker A: That's what it's all about.
[00:07:14] Speaker B: It's why we started this, to help and encourage people whose lives have been negatively affected by fundamentalist legalism and to challenge those who promote tradition over scripture. And so I'm so excited. I mean, I ran into a guy at Bucky's. We didn't, he didn't have a come to Jesus meeting, but man, we had a boosies meeting right there. His name's Jonathan Mattingly and he sings with the group Avenue trio. So I just want to give him a shout out. I was getting my drink and he said, are you JC? I said, yeah. He's like, I love the podcast. I was like, let's go. So you never know who you're going to run into at Bucky's. That's for sure right there.
[00:07:50] Speaker C: So that is for sure.
[00:07:52] Speaker A: Yeah. And, and by the way, guys, um, you know, at some point we need to make some money for this podcast because it's starting to cost me. Um, after a recent, uh, sermon clip, uh, that got released, I had to go out and buy some brown pants, and I was so fearful that I bought brown pants and a laxative, you know, when somebody threatens, you know, to beat the crap out of me. But it was pretty interesting, you know, I have to say, it's the first time in all of my life I've ever been threatened by an overweight geriatric. So it was, it was at least a unique experience. But I'm prepared now. I've, I have my laxatives and I have my brown pants. And so if I happen to run across him, fellas, you can know that I'm, I'm prepared.
[00:08:42] Speaker C: You will be prepared.
[00:08:44] Speaker B: Glad you're prepared, buddy. I think with that, we should get this show started. Y'all ready?
[00:08:49] Speaker C: I'm ready.
[00:08:50] Speaker A: I'm ready.
[00:08:52] Speaker B: Let's go.
The recovering fundamentalist podcast starts in three.
[00:09:13] Speaker C: You know what makes women stupid is calling Jesus was not a bartender.
[00:09:17] Speaker B: High back. Two.
[00:09:19] Speaker C: You have lost your mind. Long tongue heifers have given me a lot more trouble than heifers wearing britches. And you know that. Say amen right there. One, let me tell you something, bozo. They'll be selling frosties in hell for this boy puts on a pair of pink underwear. Amen. I sucked my thumb till I was.
[00:09:37] Speaker B: 14 years of age.
Hey, mate. Oh, goodness. It never gets old. It literally never gets old. Hey, we got some exciting stuff coming up here in the life of the recovering fundamentalist podcast that you are invited to coming up in November, the first weekend in November. It is the first 3rd annual for the sake of the gospel conference going to be happening right here at Hope Church Catoosa in Fort Oglethorpe, Georgia. We'd love for you to make plans. No registration, free of charge. You just got to get here. It's going to be two days full of excitement and goodness and preaching and singing and fellowship and.
[00:10:15] Speaker C: But hey, we did get a master class in taking up offerings over the last couple of days through, through that streaming service. So, I mean, hey, we could, we could take up one of those three hour offerings and as long as we talk like Sammy Allen, then maybe we can pull it off.
[00:10:33] Speaker B: They took up the offering for 48 minutes. They raised $18,000 and then they weren't satisfied. They said, I think we can get 6000 more. And so what's his name? That, that guy that was in our intro of the, right there, John and John, John Morgan. John Morgan, he said, we need 6000 more dollars and had all the little children bring up dollar bills. It was like a megathon.
[00:10:56] Speaker A: Well, I'm looking forward to the. For the sake of the gospel conference in Catoosa, JC, just because of your generosity, offering to take everybody to champies and pick up the bill. Man, I just. Man, you're so.
[00:11:07] Speaker C: Lord, we're going to have to take an offering.
[00:11:10] Speaker B: Yes, we are.
[00:11:11] Speaker A: Here's the problem. All of us stink at it.
I couldn't raise money in a room full of millionaires. That's the truth.
[00:11:20] Speaker B: Oh, goodness. I did learn one thing. We just got back from Wyoming. We went out on a little trip with our small group. I learned the quickest way to become a millionaire out there. Show up with 5 million.
[00:11:31] Speaker A: Yes, exactly. That place is insane. But man, did you get to go to Yellowstone?
[00:11:38] Speaker B: I mean, we were in Yellowstone. We were right there in the Teton National park.
[00:11:41] Speaker A: It was beautiful, isn't it? Man, when I. When I went there, I was as happy as a beaver in a redwood forest.
[00:11:47] Speaker B: It was.
[00:11:48] Speaker A: It was beautiful.
[00:11:50] Speaker B: It snowed 48 inches in 24 hours. It was unbelievable. I've never seen that much snow in my life. I look like Ray Charles in a bumper car trying to drive out there. It was unbelievable.
[00:12:00] Speaker A: And if Nathan would have wore that cool shirt and all that snow, he would have looked like Jackson hole, Wyoming.
[00:12:06] Speaker C: Come on.
[00:12:07] Speaker A: It's true. Yeah.
[00:12:09] Speaker B: You know, big trips coming up. We're going to Israel in January.
[00:12:12] Speaker C: Yep.
[00:12:13] Speaker B: RFP pastors trip in Israel. Wives are invited. If you want them to go, you can go to recovering fundamentalist.org, click, click on the Israel tab and sign up to go. There are folks taking trips to Israel right now. So I guess, hey, you just dodge the bombs and go see the holy land. It's gonna be a good trip. And that's how we sell it on here. That's it with you. But we'd love to go.
[00:12:37] Speaker C: It's a faith building trip. You gotta learn to trust in the Lord.
[00:12:41] Speaker B: It is life changing, though.
[00:12:43] Speaker A: Did you guys hear about the guy who was over in Israel and it was he and his wife and his mother in law, did you hear about that?
[00:12:50] Speaker C: I don't think so.
[00:12:51] Speaker A: Yeah, his mother in law passed away while they were there. And the israeli government told him, he said, look, for $50,000 we can ship her back to America. Or for dollar 500 you can bury her here.
He thought for a minute and he said, well, he said, I want to ship her back to America.
They said, you want to pay $50,000 to ship her back to America? He said, heck, yeah. He said, somebody was buried here one time, and they rose from the dead. I don't want to take any chances.
[00:13:24] Speaker C: Love it.
[00:13:25] Speaker B: Oh, goodness.
[00:13:30] Speaker C: That's good, Brian, you were poised and ready to go on that.
[00:13:33] Speaker A: Hey, that. That literally just came out of nowhere right there.
[00:13:38] Speaker B: That. Bless my soul right there.
[00:13:40] Speaker A: Thank you, buddy.
[00:13:41] Speaker B: You know, when I. I loved the Israel trip, when we got to go, I mean, there's still not a day that goes by. I see all the pictures here in my office, but especially around this time of the year when we celebrate Easter. Just how special that was to be there with y'all and the other. And, you know, at the tomb doing communion, just singing and what it's like Easter has taken on an entire different meeting once our. We have literally stood in the empty tomb. You know, it's just special, man. It was. It's such a good trip. And we want you to go with us. Go to recovering fundamentalist.org, click on the Israel tab, and get signed up today.
[00:14:18] Speaker A: Yeah. Don't miss it.
[00:14:20] Speaker B: Well, Brian, you want to set up what we're going to talk about on this episode number 175?
[00:14:26] Speaker A: Yes. We've got. We've got a great interview tonight.
We're interviewing not a guest, but we are interviewing someone who has a true heart for the conversation, someone who has lived in a way that proves that they prioritize the conversation that we have tonight. You know, our time is our most valuable commodity, and we have two choices. We can either spend time or we can invest time.
What we invest time in is what we value most.
And over the past few years, Nathan, I have seen you invest your time, your life, in the cause of missions.
And it's obvious that you have a tremendous heart for missions. A firm belief that everyone, in any context, whether on their job or in their home, in their own home, among their family, in their community, or somewhere across the oceans, that they should be living on mission.
And I think you're likely the best person that we could have this interview with so that we could talk to you about missions. By the way, I think you are now the most traveled person I know.
JC and I have looked at your pictures as you've been everywhere in the whole world and around the world.
[00:16:01] Speaker B: Know how to buy plane tickets.
It may be part of that. Oh, Dubai. Well, I'm in Italy now. Oh, Japan. Oh, that's nowhere near India. Yeah, there's. That is so true, Jason. The one place.
[00:16:15] Speaker A: Yeah. And here's what's bad, you know, now everywhere you fly, you have to connect in either Dallas or Atlanta. So what I'm wondering is, what is it like, you know, when you're going from London and you have to fly back to Atlanta and then fly back to Dubai, and then you have to fly back to Texas and then you have to fly to Thailand. But, Nathan, you truly have demonstrated a great heart.
[00:16:38] Speaker B: That wasn't. That was. That was the bomb.
[00:16:40] Speaker A: That wasn't good.
[00:16:42] Speaker B: I see where you were going, but, sorry, you can't.
[00:16:45] Speaker A: You can't fly from Boston to New York without going through Dallas, Fort Worth or Atlanta. But anymore, you've demonstrated such a great heart for missions. And so I'm looking forward to hearing what you've learned, how God has changed your view of missions. And then if you don't mind, maybe you can share a couple of really meaningful moments when God has used living on mission to impact your own life, when you went to be a blessing and in the end you were blessed.
[00:17:18] Speaker C: Yeah. Well, thank you, Brian. I appreciate that, man. And you guys both know I do love missions, and I really have the independent Baptist to thank for that. Growing up in the IFB, it was stressed, the branch of the IFB that I grew up in, that we had missions, conferences, it was preached in the pulpits regularly. The importance of world global missions, starting at home in Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and the uttermost parts of the world. So I grew up hearing that. But there was a big part of me as a kid that just didn't want to be a missionary.
I felt the importance of it. And honestly, I was in a missionary family. We weren't overseas, but we were ministering in a boys home and we lived there full time. And it was, I mean, I was basically a preacher's kid and a missionaries kid and grew up on mission, just seeing what it was like every day of my life and immersed in that culture. But I didn't go on my first missions trip until I was probably 35, 36 years old. And the first time I went was with Calvary Chapel. We went to the Dominican Republic and I ended up leading multiple trips there. And my two oldest kids got to go with me and we got to experience that for the first time together, which was just amazing. My wife got to go on one of those trips and, uh, that's where God really just put something in my heart. I came back from one of those trips and met with my pastor at the time and was just weeping. I said, I don't know what's happening. I love what I'm doing. I love being a youth pastor. But God's doing something in my heart for missions. And that was right about the same time I met you, Brian, and I remember you and I having those conversations. And then God took me into church planning.
But really, there's. There's no difference in church planning and missions. Missions is church planning, and church planning is missions. And, you know, I want us to talk a little bit more about that. But while I'm thankful for what the independent fundamental Baptist gave me is stressing that missions was important, I've. I've never questioned that. Uh, now, when I was a kid, the way some of those missionaries would get up and share stories, I I promise you, I was terrified that God was gonna send me to Africa to live in a mud hut. I would never have any fun. I would just, like, have to give everything up in my life and go be a missionary and just be miserable for the rest of my life. And honestly, that. That was probably the voice of Satan that was putting that in my mind and my heart, because I'm passionate about missions. And if God called me to Africa tomorrow, I would be the happiest man in the world, because I absolutely love missions. But while I'm thankful for the independent Baptists and what they taught me, we all know that there is a broken missions program in the independent fundamental Baptist. And I just wanted to see if the three of us could kind of talk about that, because I know you guys have stories. I have stories about things that we've experienced in the IFB world, in missions that could either be improved upon or it's just totally broken, and they need to reinvent this, the system. And before y'all talk about that, I do want to say there are good independent Baptist missionaries. I know some of them, some people who are passionate about the gospel, and there are some churches that I think have. Some have some healthy missions programs, but there are a lot of unhealthy things related to missions in the independent fundamental baptist world.
[00:21:06] Speaker B: Nate, did you ever go to the missions conference at Highland park in Tennessee? Temple back?
[00:21:10] Speaker C: Oh, yeah.
[00:21:11] Speaker B: The death calculator. Yes, the death calculator. It scared me to death. Like, it literally was over on the side, and it would just non stop roll, and it was almost used as a scare tactic. Like, if you don't answer the call to go to missions, you're not helping that death calculator there, you know? And it would always just hit. And it got to a point where it was almost like when it got to an even number across, we would all cheer silently inside, but, you know, it was like there was this almost, this not a calling of God, just this scare tactic used to go out. And I equate that to a lack of discipleship in the IFB church when it comes to this. That's why I'm excited to talk about this, this topic tonight. Discipleship and missions.
[00:21:52] Speaker C: Yeah, well, I think one of the.
[00:21:55] Speaker A: Things that we could bring up that's definitely broken is the system of deputation at independent fundamentalist missionaries have to live out and, and by the way, live under.
I remember growing up as a pastor's kid, you know, I thought missionaries, uh, were those people who had 14 kids and, um, the old slide projector. Um, so I. I didn't really didn't understand missions.
But now that I've. I've been a pastor for years, and I have friends who served as independent baptist missionaries, hearing them tell the horror stories of how their families were treated, because we can all three attest to the fact that missionaries were invited to camp meetings and jubilees, but a lot of times missionaries were treated like second class citizens.
[00:22:56] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:22:57] Speaker A: And I remember as a teenager seeing that and, you know, really feeling uncomfortable at times with the way missionaries were treated. But you wear out three or four cars, you're trying to get, you know, 10,000 churches to give you $20 a month so they can post on their board how many missionaries they support, when in actuality they're giving so little to everyone, they're not really giving anything to anyone that is of great benefit. And, and so I'd like to hear you guys talk about your thoughts on the current system of deputation.
[00:23:31] Speaker B: I remember when I was the earliest memories that I have of deputation. Uh, I was probably 1112 years old. We had a missionary couple stay at our house in Indiana, or right after we had just moved here to Chattanooga. And I remember sitting at the table and listening to him talk to dad, and he said, if I knew it was going to be this hard to get to have, if I knew it was going to be this hard for churches to give me $20 to $50 a month, and I would. I was literally going to have to starve and be out here living in people's houses and like you said, wearing out cars, getting five minutes on a Sunday night to stand up and hoping a mission would take me in, he goes, man, we would have never said yes to this, you know, and I just saw defeat. I remember being so young and even seeing this man and his family traveling all over the country, just hoping a church will give him $25 a month. And, you know, it really just. There was almost. Almost starting off in defeat. You know, it's not like there's this excitement about the call, but then it's like, now we're going to. We're going to really drag you down before you get there.
[00:24:35] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:24:36] Speaker A: I've.
[00:24:36] Speaker C: I've seen so many, so many families almost destroyed. I've seen marriages destroyed, families destroyed on deputation. It's. It's a brutal system. And I'm not against people fundraising. I'm not against the, the.
I'm not against hard work. That's what I'm really trying to say. I think missions, church planning, it is hard work, but if. If a local church wants to send a missionary, they should be able to take responsibility for that missionary and ensure they need to go visit places and there. There needs to be some sort of fundraising involved. But the, but the way that the IFB does it, it is so difficult on husbands, wives and children. My heart breaks for the children because I had a lot of friends growing up that were caught in that. Thankfully, we didn't have to go do that in the same way because we were in the states. But, man, we had missionaries just about every week of the year passing through and staying with us at the, at the boys home. And it was really brutal on families, and that, that wasn't the only issue with, with independent fundamental Baptist missions. Um, I think the, the missionaries had a lack of support once they got on the field, and I'm. I'm not talking about financial support. That that was an issue. A lot of times they get over and lose support, but, I mean, teams coming to help them, people being involved with them. I can't tell you how many missionaries have said they just felt like they were forgotten when they got on the field. And Brian, I know you've, you've heard that from people and, and you've hit. Helped people and dealt with people in the aftermath of that, but they just feel like they go overseas and they're forgotten.
[00:26:22] Speaker A: Yeah. You know, I think one of the saddest things for me, and I want to go back to the. To the deputation piece for just a moment. You know, I can remember when we would be at some of the larger meetings and, you know, as an evangelist, family singers, we were. We were put up in a hotel, and I've literally seen missionaries sleeping in Sunday school classes.
I was at one meeting where a great missionary to Ecuador, slept in his car.
That's an issue.
Making families get up and practically beg in hopes of getting support because of all the miles they've invested.
You know, we could have guys on this podcast interview tonight that I know personally who could tell you some of the most heartbreaking stories. And I personally know I won't call them by name because I wouldn't want to embarrass them anyway. But I know personally missionaries whose kids now will have nothing to do with Jesus, nothing to do with the church, because of what they saw on deputation, literally having to change their identity from church to church to church. You know, now at this church, we have to be like this. Now this other one, they're a little looser on their standards. And so you can, you can do this and, and, and just all the hypocrisy that was associated with that. Unfortunately, I do know horror stories. And so I think there needs to be a better system of making sure that they have the support they need, the training they need. And then, as you were just saying, the follow up, because not only Nathan does lack of follow up lead to discouragement, but it also leads to a lack of accountability. We had an independent Baptist missionary back when we were an independent Baptist church come to town, and he was raising money for an orphanage. And he said he had a $27,000 need that had to be met. If this $27,000 need was not met, then basically the orphanage was going to collapse. Kids weren't going to get food and necessities. And so that night it was blessed Hope Baptist church then raised that $27,000.
We had one man step up and cut a check for over $20,000 to make up the difference.
Well, a week and a half later, I got a call from a pastor friend in Florida, and he said, hey, we just had. And he called the missionary's name, understand? He was just at your place. Oh, yeah.
Well, man, God did something so great last night. He stood up and presented this $27,000 need that they had. And man, we raised all $27,000.
And I said, you have got to be kidding me.
Well, come to find out in the country he was in, he lived in a gated community.
He had come. Couple of people who were servants in the home, ba basically a butler, a maid, and guys that just shouldn't be allowed. But that's what a lack of involvement and investment and accountability leads to.
[00:30:01] Speaker C: Yeah, and accountability in the IfB that I grew up in meant that you read the, the missions letter that came in every month, the newsletter. And, I mean, you basically pin it on the board. Some Wednesday nights they'd stand up and read those. But I, I don't know if anybody from our little local church went to any of these places to, to check in on a missionary, if there's any. There's no sort of system. There wasn't executives that would travel and check up. And, uh, we, we had multiple situations, and I know you, you, both of you guys have heard about, of this because we've talked about it, but multiple situations where you would support someone, and here they'd been back in the states for three to five years, and they haven't even been missionaries, and they didn't even bother to tell anybody that they were back. So there, yeah, there's, there's issues from the church side where, you know, they force families to do deputation. They, there's a definite lack of training, a lack of support once they get on the field, lack of accountability. And there's things from missionary side where they take advantage of a bad situation where, you know, if they're not trained right and they don't even realize what they're going over there to do, then that becomes an issue. And another thing I've noticed that's negative about the independent Baptist, a lot of independent Baptist missionaries is contextualization is a bad thing in the IFB, where basically they're going over to foreign countries trying to make independent, fundamental american Baptists out of people living in villages and tribes and other cities, and that our job is not to go create Americans. Our job is not to go create people in our image. The job of missions is to contextualize the gospel. The message never changes, but the method changes. Languages change, cultures change, and you should engage cultures where they're at. And that's something that, the trip I just got back from, man, we leaned into that heavily and met people where they were, and people loved answering questions about their culture, and you would talk to them about where they're at, and you learn from people in those cultures. So, uh, when, when contextualization is a bad thing and it's preached against, then you're basically going over there trying to make people look like your local Baptist church in Texas. And that is not what missions is all about. Uh, cultures are beautiful. Different, different cultures, different contexts are beautiful. God created the world in that way. And, um, I want to make people, Christians, believers in Jesus, disciples of Jesus.
But that doesn't mean they need to start listening to the same type of music. We listen to, they. They need to wear the kind of clothes, suit and tie that we wear and talk in the same way we do. And you know what I'm talking about, Brian, you've seen.
[00:33:06] Speaker A: Absolutely, Nathan. So let me ask you this. So now that you've been on multiple missions trips and you've worked with different organizations, with missionaries from different backgrounds, how have you seen missions done differently? Like, if we're talking about lack of accountability, lack of training, lack of what have you seen and witnessed different in the missions trips you've taken that leads to greater gospel effectiveness?
[00:33:38] Speaker C: Well, that's a great question, and that is what I really have a heart to talk about tonight. And, and I want to talk about it two different aspects. The first aspect is short term missions. I am passionate about short term missions, and there are people and groups out there that speak against short term missions trips. I want to just make it clear where I stand. I love them. My life was changed on a short term missions trip. Uh, the only thing I would say is I like to call short term missions trips discipleship trips, because two things happen. Number one, you get to serve with missionaries and you get to serve different people in different cultures and different countries.
But the main thing about short term missions trips is you're taking anywhere from ten to 30 people somewhere for two weeks, and you have an opportunity to invest in their lives as leaders.
And when we would take the group of the youth group, we'd take two groups of students, about 30 students in each group, to the Dominican Republic for two weeks each every year. When I was at Calvary Chapel in Chattanooga, and when I experienced that trip, the first trip I was on, it was, I think, halfway through the trip, and I looked at Pastor Kenny and I was like, man, this isn't a missions trip. And he was like, he was almost offended. He was like, what are you talking about? And I was like, man, this is a discipleship trip. And he. He was like, what do you mean? And I said, you're literally getting these kids away from their homes, their schools, their friends, their whole environment, taking them to a third world country and teaching them how to study their bibles. When we were on these trips, we would journal through two or three books of the Bible, like, they would have a section of scripture to journal through every morning while they were eating, eating their breakfast and getting ready for the day, they would journal. Then we would go out and serve and do different things, working with local missions, organizations that were already on the ground, already doing amazing things. And then that evening, we would come back, have dinner together, and then we would talk about what we studied in the Bible that morning, and we would talk about what we experienced in the day. So imagine two weeks of your students, or even adults, getting to study the Bible and start living on mission and start living as disciples. It changes people's lives.
[00:36:10] Speaker A: Mm hmm.
[00:36:12] Speaker B: It definitely does. However, a lot of the IFB short term mission trips that you're going on are nothing more than sometimes glorified vacations. Where you're going, you're taking some pictures with some natives, some little dirty kids, you're posting them on your social media, high five, a pat on the back. There's no discipleship. There's no growth. It is. I raised $1,200. I'm going over here and getting some pictures and feeling good about myself that I did a mission trip. Yeah, that's where the lack of discipleship comes in. In the context of what is missions. Is missions just we're going to go to say that I went to Dominican Republic and I handed out 500 pieces of paper to people, or is it going make to a change? Is one week going to impact? 52 weeks? Is what we're doing real life change, or is it just something that we can feel good about ourselves that we went and served some poor people? You know, because, I mean, growing up, IFB, a lot of the mission trips I went on, Ukraine, Romania, Mexico, we didn't really do much mission work. It was more like we just went on a trip, and I came home and I said, well, here's the sites that I saw. Here's the things that we did. I got some pictures with some natives, but there's. I could not tell you what our mission trip was. It was a lot of money raised. But then when I went on a trip in college and it was a discipleship trip, like what you're talking about, it was the whole game, understanding what missions was, why we are doing this, who we are impacting. We're not just here to sightsee and take some pictures. That's part of it. But there's a growth that happens for us while we are on the mission field that I definitely see what you're talking about. And Calvary Chapel is not an IFB church. So, you know, I think there's definitely a big difference in some of the IFB mission trips, vacations, and some of the other discipleship trips, for sure.
[00:37:59] Speaker A: You know, one of my favorite stories, by the way, it's a true story. You know, there are missions organizations out there, and they have turned missions into a very profitable business.
[00:38:10] Speaker C: Oh, yeah.
[00:38:10] Speaker A: And they will charge an unbelievably hefty price for your young person to go on a missions trip. Well, you know, those small, poor communities in third world countries have learned the benefit of having the American Santa clauses come over and give the money and invest the money. So I know a guy who was serving with one of those organizations, and he said they. They came in and they were going to, I think it was a little medical building or an orphanage, it was something like that. And a team came over and they were going to paint the building.
And so they painted the building and did all of this and everybody, like you said, you know, the photo ops and all that, and they leave feeling good about themselves. He said, when they left, all the people got together and they started messing up the building, making it dirty and scratching all the paint. And they said, another group's coming in two weeks. We've got to mess the building up because they're going to paint it again.
And I think, I couldn't help it.
[00:39:20] Speaker B: I.
[00:39:21] Speaker A: But it's really easy to get misguided.
[00:39:27] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:39:27] Speaker A: About missions, Nathan, I'd love to hear you speak to this.
If the gospel is absent and we're just basically doing glorified Red Cross ministry or glorified UNiceF ministry, and we believe by some odd form of osmosis, the people are just automatically going to catch that we're there in Jesus name.
If there is not a gospel, an intentional gospel impact, then do you believe it? It can truly be called missions according to the scripture?
[00:40:12] Speaker C: No, I don't think so. It's not making disciples, it's not evangelism, and it's not true biblical missions, because biblical missions is based on the great commission, which is go and make disciples. Go and preach the gospel. Go to every nation. And, you know, this. This applies to either short term missions trips or long term missions. But talking back, touching back on what JC said and what you're asking, the question you're asking, one of the ways that we solve that is in the training for short term missions trips. Every short term missions trip I've been on has been partnered with existing ministries that are on the ground, existing missionaries that are preaching the gospel, planning churches, doing things. And in our training every year, I would train our students and our leaders, saying, we're not the saviors. We're not going over here as, oh, these rich american people or these educated american people. We're smarter than everybody. We're here to save you. No, man, we're. We're tourists at best. If all we're doing is going over there, even if we do things, even if we stand on the corner and preach the gospel or whatever, we're there and then we're gone. But the. The most powerful thing about short term missions trips is partnering with people that are on the ground, that are doing the work. And every time we go, we train everybody that's on the team that you go basically with the posture of three positions. Number one, you're a student.
You're there to learn. You're. Don't go in there like you're arrogant and like you have all the answers and you're trying to tell everybody about how awesome America is. No, go learn about their culture. Enjoy their culture. You're a student. First of all, you should always be trying to learn. And I promise you, there's a lot I've learned in third world countries that made me look back at America and say, man, we're getting a lot of things wrong, because in America, a lot of times, it's about the american dream. It's about making the dollar, getting caught up in the rat race, and a lot of times, getting away in a third world country will wake you up to realize the need around us and how we're spinning our wheels and wasting our time. So, first of all, we go in as a student. Next, we go in as a servant. Jesus served and his disciples served. He said, the greatest is the least among you, and you should be a servant of all people. So when we go in as a student to learn, we go in as a servant to serve people. And then number three, and this is probably one of the most important ones, you go in as a guest.
You need to be a good guest like you hope you have a good, good host. And I've been places where we had really good hosts, and I've been some places where it wasn't that good of a host. But it's our responsibility to be a good guest, to be someone that they would want you to come back, that they would want to see you again. And, man, I can tell you, after going five or six summers in a row to the Dominican Republic, we built relationships there with missionaries, with local churches, with even community organizations and health organizations and things that we got to serve with that were making a difference on the ground. And we would see people from different villages year after year after year. And I'm still in touch with a lot of those people. We're friends because short term missions, when it's done through the context of discipleship it makes such a huge difference.
[00:43:44] Speaker B: You know, we were able about starting about eleven years ago when I was campus pastor, we had a sister church, a ministry in Moldova. Moldova is the poorest country in Europe. It's right between Ukraine and Romania. And there is a ministry there. Speaking on what you said, helping existing ministries, we went the first year and tried to do it on our own. We tried to do a Bible school, we tried to hand out tracks. We tried to do block parties. And then we were there. We. We met these folks and went back six more times during the summer for up to three weeks at a time to serve with them, to do english camp, to. To help at their church. And there are kids today that are grown adults now practically that are still friends with me on Instagram that were able to continue that. That relationship because it was teaching them a. An english lesson eleven years ago, you know, but I love what you said there about helping existing ministries. Too many people go in and it's one week, it's in, it's out, it's some pictures. And when you're helping existing ministries, that one week that you're there is going to impact. 52 weeks.
[00:44:52] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:44:53] Speaker B: It's going to become into a VBs, feel good about yourself, go back and be like, well, here's what we did while we were there, but it's no lasting change. Now you're leaving and you're helping that ministry, that missionary that is building relationships with those people. You're just a conduit to help them meet new people, to continue to grow. And so I love that point about helping existing ministries, Nate. That's. That's a big thing that a lot of times we miss.
[00:45:17] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. Well, God is working in these places and there are people that have given up everything and moved there and they know so much more than we do.
[00:45:27] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:45:27] Speaker C: And the local pastors, the indigenous pastors, they know so much more about the culture. It's. It's very american and silly of us when we go in with a savior complex and we think we're there to fix everything. No, man, I've learned so much more. And Brian, you said it. I end up getting blessed every time I go on a missions trip, short term or long term. I think I get more benefits out of it than the people I'm serving because it's such a blessing to partner with people that are making a difference.
[00:45:56] Speaker B: You know, Nate, I think that savior mentality comes when it's that living for acceptance. When we get back, we got to stand up on a Sunday night and give a detailed list of our trip and what we did. And if our number doesn't appear like it's something good, we didn't hand out 1500 tracks, and we didn't have eight people pray a prayer and get saved, you know, then it's almost like, did I let those people that gave me money down? You know, it's almost along the lines of, we're not the savior, but we feel like we have to go and do something that almost looks sexy to where when we come back, we're saying, look at what we did. That's the whole point. When it's. Look at what we did, that misses the whole point of missions. That's why discipleship is so important on the front end. Before you go.
[00:46:41] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.
[00:46:42] Speaker A: You know? Yeah. Americans are so confused. I mean, it's almost like we would have a Lee Greenwood Bible and put the constitution in it, you know, Trump.
[00:46:53] Speaker B: Did announce today the America first Bible.
[00:46:56] Speaker A: Yeah, that's. That's. That's what I was referring to. I just wasn't giving a plug, but.
[00:47:00] Speaker B: I gave it a plug. Edit that out. Yeah, yeah.
[00:47:03] Speaker A: Uh, but, you know, when I went to, uh. When I went to Africa on a missions trip, my life was changed by them.
[00:47:14] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:47:14] Speaker A: You know, I was invited by the United Church, United Church of Zambia, and I preached in multiple places, even out in little, small, remote villages.
And I went to be a blessing. In the end. I was blessed. We were able to share, we were able to give. We lived among the people. I ate things in Africa that I have no idea what I ate. It changed the way I bless food. But, you know, Nathan, now, I appreciate you, because you've been on all these missions trips, and I haven't heard you embellish salvation numbers like JC was just talking about. You know, I had a cousin who was a missionary, Jamaica, and he said it absolutely broke his heart. His family went there with about 50% of their support because it was taking them forever to raise their support.
As a matter of fact, they went there, and I don't think he would mind me sharing this. They had so little support, they were so poor, that in about a year, he lost nearly 100 pounds.
He got an incredibly poor health, had to come back to America to be treated for his health.
His dad, their family, they were legitimately trying to reach people. And then he said these guys would show up, they would bring over boxes of just hundreds and even thousands of bibles. They would get on the back of a pickup truck with a loudspeaker, and they would start calling. Come get the free bibles. Well, he said in jamaican culture, people take anything free. Yeah, he said, so they would start calling out, come get the free bibles.
And they would count a convert for every person who took a bible.
And they actually had churches call and insult them. How is it you've been in Jamaica now for two years and you only have a church of 15 people? And this guy went over there for one week and had 800 converts and they would actually lose support as a result of that. So thank you for not embellishing the numbers. But let me ask you this very specific question.
As you've now walked through Asia, as you've now walked through the mountains of Nepal, how has God changed you?
What have you encountered that has changed fundamentally who you are as a follower of Jesus because of these, these missions trips?
[00:49:49] Speaker C: Well, number one, I've learned that God is at work in every place on this planet. God is at work. He has people. When I first went to Nepal, I was blown away at the network of church planners over there that are reaching these rural villages which really connected with me, Brian, because we're hope. Church is all about planning churches in rural areas. And that's exactly what these church planners are doing over there. And those guys, like, when I went over there, they wanted to learn from me. They asked me all these questions and they were, they were so gracious and so kind to me and wanted to learn. And I said, guys, I'm here to learn from you. Like you're, you're killing it. Like the way you're organized, the way you're dependent on each other, the brotherhood and how you're making disciples, how you're faithful to the gospel, how you're working hard and studying and, and you have goals and vision of what you're wanting to accomplish in a certain set amount of time. I learned so much from the missionaries and the pastors that I've served with on the ground in these locations. And Brian, two huge things have, have been reinforced in my heart. Number one, church planting is where it's at. Church planting is the secret to missions you need to build. The great commission is, is not different in missions than it is at home. The great commission is the same around the world. And I've said this before, the great commission isn't different for youth and adults. It's the same across the board. Whether you're ministering to senior citizens, young people or middle age. It's the same for rich and poor. The gospel is the same. The great commission is the same. And God told us to make disciples. So planning churches and making disciples discipleship, which. There's really not two different things. It's. It's one thing. Making disciples results in building churches, planning churches, and planning churches increases disciples. So it's. It works hand in hand. So the, the main thing I've learned is that the gospel is the power of God to salvation and making disciples and planning churches is, is where it's at. And, and it works here at home. I'm. I'm a missionary in Asheville, and it's. It's hard. We've been taught, uh, plowing the ground and working in the fields here for a year and a half, and we've seen some progress, but not as much as I would like. It's hard work and it's the same way, same way overseas.
[00:52:38] Speaker A: You know, you just said something that reminded me. I was in a room with James McDonald one night and he said something so incredibly cool, I've never gotten past it. He said, the heart of the church is missions, and the mission of missions is the church.
It's. It's just all connected.
[00:52:58] Speaker C: That is true.
[00:52:59] Speaker A: All connected.
[00:53:00] Speaker C: Yeah. And this, this most recent trip that I was.
There are a lot of things I can't share, but I was able to go to a country in, in South Asia that is a muslim country, and I was able to work there on the ground in this muslim country with the underground church. And I was there with a group of pastors, and we served in a place where there are laws, the blasphemy laws, against, you know, speaking out against any other religion. And ultimately sharing the gospel with people is very, very dangerous in these places. People have been kicked out of the country, people have been imprisoned. And their persecution is a real, real thing in this location. And when we were there, we went through. Every morning, we had to go through training to learn about the culture, to learn about what the team that's there on the ground is doing. And I wish I could talk more about this team. They're, they're amazing people that have sacrificed so much of their lives and their families to, to move them to a place where it's incredibly, incredibly difficult to share the gospel. And they're not throwing out these numbers of having 150 people saved every three months. And it's. It's nothing like that. It's. There's a very real sense of dependency on the Holy Spirit, that if God doesn't show up and do something, this, this task is impossible. But when we were on the ground in the training, I was blown away. And I want to encourage everybody. You can find this online. The international Mission board has come up with a book called foundations, and it is a book about missions. It's. I don't know, it's probably 70, 60, 70 pages. It's. It's an impressive book that talks about who they are, what they do, their core convictions, core values, the missiological convictions, and the marks of a disciple. Like, it is an incredible training book. And we had a few of the IMb executives with us on this trip, and they were able to train us in some of this stuff. But the thing that blew me away was, the last ten years, there has been a shift in how they're doing missions.
In the past, it was more of a immersive, long term. Move somewhere and you live and die there. Well, they're doing things a little bit differently now. And I just want to explain this. It blew me the way that blew me away the first time I heard this and saw this chart. This chart is called the missionary task. And the very first point is entry. They. They have a way that they enter a country. You learn about the country. You meet people.
So the entry is the first step. The second step is evangelism. Once you've entered the country, you've become a part of that. Many of them get jobs and immerse themselves in cultures, get work visas, and. And a lot of these people have college degrees, and they use them to bless the country that they go to. Imagine that you're getting a job, you're working, you're plugging into the society, whatever it means, to enter that culture. Then you find ways to evangelize the culture. Then the third step is discipleship.
And I love how those go hand in hand, because you and all three of us know the focus was on evangelism and independent, fundamental Baptist missions. It's about conversions, and you hear very little about discipleship. That's why you would have missionaries saying, we had 700 people saved this year and we're running 15 people in our church, or we've had 300 people saved and we baptized two, because they're focusing on a prayer, they're focusing on a decision. And I'm a believer in evangelism, but I don't think there is true evangelism without discipleship. That's the next part of the step. Well, after discipleship is healthy church formations. They're planning churches in these fields, in these nations, and the next step is leadership development.
They're literally raising up leadership in that culture.
And people that speak the language people that live in the. Yeah, they're raising up leaders. And the next step is exit to partnership. They're going in entry, evangelism, discipleship, healthy church formation, leadership development, then exit to partnership, where they're moving somewhere else and starting the whole process over. And we. There were people on this trip that said, well, why wouldn't you encourage someone to move somewhere and pastor a church and stay there for the rest of his life? And they said, because there's no way he could ever do as good of a job as someone who was born and raised there.
[00:58:10] Speaker A: Amen.
[00:58:11] Speaker C: And when, when you start raising up nationals and teaching them to be pastors and teaching them to evangelize and make disciples, you can move somewhere else and start planting a church. Because there are. There are places on this planet where people have never heard the gospel. There are places on this planet where there are no copy of the scriptures in their language. There are so many unreached people groups that, there are groups that are committed to reaching those people, and I praise God for that. The international Mission board is, is all about reaching all the unreached people groups. And I've heard one estimate that we're within 30 years of doing that, which, which makes me think Jesus is coming back real soon if we see the gospel getting to every single corner of the round globe, uh, in, in this world.
And so, and in this book, the, the missionary task, that, that is huge. And in the center of that missionary task, it. It's three words, abide in Christ. There's a total dependence on Christ and knowing that you're over there not as the savior, but to point people to him. And it's going to be hard and it's going to be difficult, but this process works. And along with this, they have twelve characteristics. Twelve characteristics. That's easy for you to say. Twelve characteristics of a healthy church. And it's evangelism, discipleship, membership, leadership, preaching and teaching ordinances, worship, fellowship, prayer, accountability and discipline, giving missions. So they're teaching the church plants how to be a healthy church. And then in this book, they have the six marks of a disciple. So everything about missions is about discipleship and church planning. And just briefly, the six marks of a disciple are, number one, a transformed heart, number two, a transformed mind, three, transformed affections, four, transformed will, five, transform relationships and six, transformed purpose. The power of the gospel changes us. It changes our DNA. It changes us at the core of who we are. And I just can't even stress the difference of the missions that I grew up the missions programs that I grew up under and grew up in and the missions conferences that I went to, like, there were literally missionaries that were going over, and their whole strategy was to stand on the corner and hand out tracks or set up a tent and have tent meetings, like trying to do what works in the rural south in some asian country, and everything doesn't work in every place. So to see people that are willing to contextualize and raise up indigenous peoples and train people to plant churches and run churches and continue this process and discipleship being the focus of all of that, man, I came back from this trip absolutely believing in missions more than I've ever believed in and in my life. It. It matters, but they're doing the exact same thing we're doing. JC, you're playing a church in Catoosa. You're following those steps. You're. You're trying to enter this culture. You're trying to raise up leaders, you're evangelizing, discipling all these different steps. That's what we're doing. It's church planning. It's the great commission. And it works because the gospel is the power of God for salvation.
[01:01:43] Speaker B: I like what you said there. You talked about missions, discipleship in the church. When the church does that. Right. The local church and in mission Field, you're providing opportunities for everyone from kids to adults.
[01:01:55] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:01:56] Speaker B: Encouraging them to grow in their faith as they learn about missions, as they're praying for mission, as they're supporting and as they're doing missions. You know, Nate, there's some people that are listening right now that will never be able to go overseas on a mission trip. God doesn't just call us to go overseas on mission trips.
[01:02:13] Speaker C: Yep.
[01:02:13] Speaker B: You can live sent on mission right here where you're at. He calls us Jesus to the community around us. So maybe God calls you to go. Listen, I lived in Salt Lake city, Utah, for three years. You want to talk about a mission field in our country, go to Utah. I mean, they are dying to have church planners and missionaries in Utah right now. But I think what is important for us to understand is as discipleship is taking place with what you just incredibly laid out right there, we're going to see that we, the church, are called to live on mission every day of our life. Where has placed us right now, for sure.
[01:02:50] Speaker A: You know, I love JC when we were hammering out all those years ago Hope church DNA based on the New Testament.
[01:03:00] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:03:00] Speaker A: You know, when God was shaping who we were not borrowing that from anyone, but who are we as a church. Who do we long to be as a church?
That point in our DNA that missions is not a program, it's a lifestyle.
[01:03:15] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:03:16] Speaker A: And so many people believe pitching a dollar bill to the missionary that's coming through town or stopping and taking a few minutes to read the note cards on the bulletin board with the missionaries pictures. Our church has a missions program.
You'll find that nowhere in scripture the church should have a bunch of missionaries who were living as missionaries in their homes, on their jobs, in their communities for the cause of Jesus Christ. And. And if I can just say one final thing, you know, guys, it might be that there's some people who are listening to this podcast who, JC, they were in one of those high pressure environments like you were talking about earlier.
You know, when.
Guys, I don't even begin to understand this, and maybe you can help me understand it, but I know people who have gone to a mission field where they don't even speak the language.
[01:04:18] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:04:19] Speaker A: God called me to this place that I can't even communicate.
Maybe you were misguided, and maybe instead of being God called, you were man called.
Yeah. There's no harm whatsoever in recalibrating whether or not you were truly called to a specific mission field. And let me just say this. If you are not living as a missionary where you are right now, God's not calling you to be one somewhere else.
[01:04:51] Speaker C: Amen.
[01:04:52] Speaker B: Yep.
[01:04:53] Speaker A: And so it's about living on mission. I love what JC just said. Live, sent every day. That's. That's not a program, that's a lifestyle. Yeah.
[01:05:05] Speaker C: One of the most convicting moments, the most convicting moments of my life happened after my first missionary. First missions trip, short term missions trip. And, man, you can imagine how excited I was. I was just drinking it in. It was just amazing. Everything we did, we're sharing the gospel at every turn. We're doing community outreaches, partnering with missionaries, with local churches, local pastors, and, man, I was just so fired up, and I was so excited. And I think it was on the last day of the missions trip, uh, one of the leaders, and. And I was a leader, but one of the other leaders looked at us and said, think about how you've lived this week. You're waking up every morning, opening up the word of God, reading, journaling, praying together, singing a song, going out, serving people, loving people, having fun with your friends while you're doing it, then coming back in and doing a service together and talking about everything he said. Think about your life, how it's different here versus in the States versus at home?
Are you living sent? Are you living on mission at home? Have you walked across your street and invited your neighbor to church or shared the gospel with your neighbor or helped someone in your community?
And it was so convicting to me because I lived totally differently those two weeks on the missions field than I lived at home. And I think every time I go on a missions trip now, there, there's a little bit of that conviction there because it reminds me, okay, I'm coming home to live on mission, which at this point in my life, I'm, I'm living on mission every day in Asheville. And, for example, I had one of our neighbors that I've been reaching out to here and, uh, haven't really had a whole lot of traction. He's only come to church once or twice. Has told me he'd be here just about every week for the past three months. And he's only showed up a couple times. And I've been trying to vest in this guy. Well, tonight he calls me right before we start recording. And he just burst out in tears. And he said, man, I just lost my cousin. He said, I just found my cousin got murdered. And I, I prayed with him on the phone and God convicted me. So I got in the car and drove over to his house, knocked on his door, and when he came out, man, he just started sobbing, wrapped his arms around my neck and just hugged me and said, thank you so much for coming over here. I needed someone to talk to, man. That's, that's how we're called to live on missions. And not just pastors, not just church planners, not just missionaries. Everyone. Every church member is a minister. If we all reached our neighborhoods and our workplaces and where we go out to eat and where we go play little league ball and church softball, if we were on mission every day of our lives, it would change the world. It would. It would absolutely impact everything. Church planners would have the easiest job in the world if that's how all churches members lived their daily lives. So that was incredibly convicting for me. And I have to constantly check up on myself. And is this how I'm living at home? Because the great commission applies to every Christian?
[01:08:26] Speaker A: Yes, sir.
[01:08:27] Speaker C: It's not just those called to the mission field. Whether you go short term, go long term, whether you're called to pray, whether you're someone that can fund someone to go, whether you give, whether you hold the rope or whether you go down the rope, and you're the one that's let down into a foreign community, whoever there, every single Christian is called to fulfill the great commission at home and to the nations.
[01:08:53] Speaker B: Amen.
[01:08:55] Speaker A: Man, that's good.
[01:08:56] Speaker B: It's good. There may be somebody listening right now that God has been calling to go into full time missions, and you just needed this to be that encouragement, to take that step of faith. It is scary, but there's opportunities for you, and so we want to encourage you. Take that step of faith. Let this episode be the encouragement that you need to say yes, to put your yes on the table and see what God would do.
[01:09:21] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:09:21] Speaker A: You know, guys, please be praying for us.
I haven't even talked to Hope church, Danville as a whole about this yet, but talking about living on mission in your own community. You know, we believe in reaching out to our community constantly, but I'm believing God to right now provide for the biggest thing we've ever attempted to do.
I learned about a gentleman here in our area.
He has lupus. His lupus is advanced.
He was his mom's caregiver. His mom had a terminal illness. He cared for her in the process.
Their house was just in complete disrepair because of his health. The house was so bad that he had to move out.
He lives now in a low income apartment, and it's a little 900 square foot house on one little lot. And, guys, it's so abandoned. Gutters hanging down windows, rotten siding, you know, off of the house.
And I was talking to him, and it's just, I would say coincidence that we met. It's. It's almost. It had to be orchestrated, but just having a conversation with him and that mom left him that house, and he said that's all he has in the world.
And. And so, guys, we're getting ready to take on the responsibility of calling Hope church to give to and to volunteer for the cause of getting this man into his home and making that dream come true for him.
And I'm so excited about that. This is such a stretch, but there's opportunities in your own local area.
[01:11:20] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:11:21] Speaker A: Food banks with rescue missions, with churches that are actually involved in the community, with homeless ministry with different opportunities. Get plugged in somewhere and be a missionary regardless.
[01:11:38] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:11:39] Speaker B: Yep.
[01:11:40] Speaker C: That's good.
[01:11:40] Speaker B: You don't have to have big budgets to have big ministry. You can do ministry with what God has called you to do one of them. I'm excited. We have a kid named Carson hall who's young life, and he is ministering to kids here in Tucson county. And so we just support him through prayer and giving him opportunities to use the building. You know, pastors that are listening. There's opportunities. Our buildings a lot of times sit empty throughout the week. You open it up. Organizations to use pregnancy resource centers, you know, food pantries. And there's so many opportunities to be the hands and feet of Jesus. It's kind of like, you know, we, we want to pray good prayers. We want to do what God has called us to do. But sometimes we got to put feet to those prayers and say, God, use us. We want to live sin. Got to take the step to live sin on mission. And, uh, you can do it. God is calling you to reach them. What is the old song we used to sing? People need the Lord? That's all that's going through my brain is.
[01:12:37] Speaker C: Yeah, that's what was playing when the slideshow was clicking.
[01:12:42] Speaker A: Yeah, I thought you were going to say, bus them in. Bus them in. Bus them in. From the fields of sand.
[01:12:51] Speaker B: What's the other one that used to be behind all the missionary slides. Thank you for giving to the Lord.
[01:12:58] Speaker A: Y'all remember that one can't sing raybolts in church anymore.
[01:13:02] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, I forgot. Never mind.
[01:13:03] Speaker A: Hey, by the way, by the way, in, in all seriousness, when you said, what was the other one? And you were trying to think of it, I was. I almost said, we are the world. We are the children. Then I thought, wait a minute. No, that wasn't it.
[01:13:21] Speaker B: That's a different mission.
[01:13:23] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[01:13:24] Speaker C: Hey, I do want to say one other thing to pastors that are out there.
A lot of times, those of us who've left the independent fundamental Baptist movement or we've just left legalism, uh, a lot of times we've seen things done so badly in missions that we just don't know where to start. Um, I want to encourage any pastors out there. If you want to reach out to one of us or send us a message, uh, if you've never led a short term missions trip or don't know where to start or don't know any good missionaries to support, man, I would, I would love to point you in the right direction on that. And, Brian, I'm honestly thankful to be a part of the southern Baptist. They have one of the most amazing missions programs. I know growing up, the independent Baptist just blistered them every time they got together and talked about missions. But, dude, I have seen some amazing, amazing missionaries. They, they fund their missionaries. They're not spending time on deputation, running around trying to scrap up $50 from 300 different churches. Uh, and they, they train them, they support them. There's accountability. And, man, I just. I see it being effective. And I'll just be honest with you. The southern baptists don't care that independent baptist churches are talking about them. They're still out on missions. They're making a difference. And I believe in the cooperative program. I believe in what they're doing through missions, the North American Mission Board and International Mission board. And I'm glad to be a part of that. So it's. It's not perfect? No. No organization is perfect. And I know some of our listeners probably have bad feelings about that organization, but I'm thankful to be a part of it. I believe in what they're doing.
[01:15:06] Speaker A: Well, I think you're describing the difference between fishing with a net and fishing with a rod and reel.
[01:15:11] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:15:14] Speaker B: As we're wrapping up, we. We do have a lot of missionaries that are on foreign fields right now, a lot of folks that are serving in missions. I think of Dan and Venezuela, Jordan in Africa, and we can sit here and start listing, and the list would go on and on. Would you close this out in a word of prayer? For those that are feeling the call to go, they would say, okay, for those that are on the field serving, that God would continue to bless them and use them. For those that feel alone, lost, just abandoned, and they're just. Their work is not in vain, but they just feel like they're just serving every day for no intense purpose. And then for the church, that we would just continue to grow in discipleship and send missionaries out everywhere that we go.
[01:15:56] Speaker C: Yeah, I'd love to. Let's pray. Father, thank you so much for the fact that this is all your plan. You're the one that. That gave us the great commission. You're the one that planned, before the world was ever created, to rescue and save people from every tribe, every nation, every language, every tongue, and God, I'm thankful that we get to be a part of this disciple making process around the world. And, Lord, I do pray for missionaries that are on the field or preparing to go on the field. God, I pray that you would encourage their hearts, give them wisdom, give them strength, help them to realize how dependent they are upon the Holy Spirit for their daily activity, that there's. There's nothing we can do apart from you. But with you, God, there's. There's no one that can stand against us. So, Lord, I do pray for the ones that are serving and planning to go, that you would make the. Make their path effective, make their methods effective. I pray that you would clear a path before them to accomplish the goal that you sent them out. And Lord, you've promised that you would allow the word of God to accomplish what it sent out to do. So Lord, I pray that you would help them to put in the hard work. I pray that you would help them to be creative and look for opportunities to engage cultures and, and to evangelize and to make disciples and to raise up local leaders and to plant churches. God, I pray that you would just allow the great commission to continue to be accomplished. And Lord, if there are missionaries on the field right now that are struggling, that are full of doubt, maybe they don't even know if they're going to stay there, if they're even called to that. God, I pray that you would meet them where they are, let, let them know that the, that you're with them, that you see them, that, that you know what they're going through and that the gospel is still the power of God to salvation, to everyone who believes. And Lord, I pray that you would just fill them with your spirit. I pray that you would fill them with a confidence in the word of God and the, the true gospel. And Lord, I pray that if they need to change some of their methods, if they need to change some of their affiliations, whatever it is that needs to be done, God, I pray that you would just empower them to be effective. And lord, for pastors here that don't really know how to engage missions or how to do it the right way, Lord, I pray that you would fill them with a, with a passion for the nations to see your glory spread among all peoples. And Lord, I just thank you that you've allowed me to have a part in this. And Lord, I pray that you continue to open doors and I just believe in you. You, I believe in your mission and I pray that you would just allow it to be effective in this generation, that we would not drop the ball, that we would continue to share the gospel and see fruit and see many souls saved for the glory of God. And we ask all these things in Jesus name. Amen.
[01:18:51] Speaker A: Amen.
[01:18:52] Speaker B: Amen.
Well, thanks for being here with us on the Recovering fundamentalist podcast. This is number three in our twelve and 24. And so fellas, until next month, happy Easter. And uh, we'll see you in April.
[01:19:06] Speaker C: Yes, and we're, we're not going to give it away, but we've got a big guest. Oh yeah, coming on next month from a big independent Baptist organization. So I can't wait for this to fall.
[01:19:20] Speaker B: That's no April fool's joke.
[01:19:22] Speaker C: That's going to be. That's no April fools. This is a big deal.
[01:19:26] Speaker B: Well, until then, y'all have a good week. Month, whatever.
[01:19:31] Speaker A: Be sweet.
[01:19:33] Speaker C: Peace.
[01:19:34] Speaker B: Thanks for listening to the recovering fundamentalist podcast. Be sure to stop by our social media, Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Give us a follow. Also, go to our website, recovering fundamentalist.org dot. That's recoveringfundamentalist.org dot. There you can find recovering fundamentalist swag. You can get your t shirts and hats. You can join our exfundi community, see where we're gonna be having some meetups. It's the recoveringfundamentalist.org dot. Be sure to join us next time for the recovering fundamentalist podcast.
