[00:00:00] You are listening to the Recovering Fundamentalist Podcast where faith and real life collide in a world full of noise, division and debate. We're here to cut through the clutter with honest conversations, bold truth and a whole lot of grace. Whether you're questioning, growing or just trying to make sense of it all, you've got a seat at the table. Let's join JC Groves for today's episode. Let's go.
[00:00:38] The Recovering Fundamentalist Podcast starts in three. You know what makes women stupid is call Jesus was not a bartender.
[00:00:47] You have lost your mind. Long tongue. Heifers have given me a lot more trouble than heifers wearing britches. And you know that. Say amen right there. 1. Let me tell you something, bozo. They'll be selling Frosties in hell for this Boy puts on a pair of pink underwear. I sucked my thumb till I was 14 years of age. Hey everybody, welcome back to the RFP where we have real conversations about life, faith and the struggles that we all face. I'm your host JC Groves and we're going to dive into a topic today that I believe will hit really deep with some people. This is going to be a two part episode and I'll tell you more about that here in just a moment. So maybe you're listening for the first time or you've been part of the RFP fam for a long time. There's a new day, if you will, here in the Recovering Fundamentalist podcast where it's a little bit different. I'm by myself now. You. You can. Normally when you turn in you will hear some banter, but Nathan and Matt Dudley, after last episode both of them stepped away to pursue different ventures as well as just get healthy. It was so good to have Nathan on the episode with us last week. I encourage you to go back and listen to episode number 184. You can hear Nathan's story there. But we're moving forward and if you've seen us on social media, if you have been part of the RFP Fam group page, you obviously know that there's a lot of changes that have come and the website has had an update and I'm excited to see where God is going to take this. So our mission statement has changed just a little bit where we exist to help those who have a broken from traditional legalism to finding freedom in Christ. Our aim from the very beginning has always been to challenge traditionalism, which has been known as man made ideologies that many times overshadow authentic interpretations of scripture.
[00:02:49] Our hope is to help you, the listener, foster a journey of healing, of growth, of renewed faith through honest conversations, biblical truth, personal stories. I hope to point you to a deeper, grace filled, authentic faith as you follow the way of Jesus. My hope is as you listen, you will be challenged, you will be encouraged and you will grow in your faith because we're all following the way of Jesus together. So thanks for joining me on this journey. Hey. The RFP has some new sponsors that I want to be sure to mention. Local Beard is a new company that we are starting and you can check it out. I'll be telling you more about that next episode as we're in the very beginning stages of Local Beard. You can find them on Facebook and TikTok. And this is for all the men with chin curtains and blue bald headed men. We also have bald head care products that are going to be coming out. Be sure to check out Local Beard. Of course, this episode there's no visual but next episode, one of the things we're going to be doing is pretty much all of my guests are going to be in person. We've partnered with 148 Films here in Chattanooga. They have an incredible podcast studio. We're going to be meeting up there and bring in some incredible content. So be sure to check 148 films out on Facebook. We also want to thank Brazon Designs, a sponsor of the RFP. You can visit them at Barzondesigns.com Professional and Affordable logo and graphic designs for churches, businesses and more. Of course he helped me update the RFP logo and I love that we walk through the process, same colors, different format, kind of making it our own now. And he added that. Let's go in there. I love that. So check him
[email protected] hey, we're going to be doing a giveaway. I've partnered with Tyndale Bibles and of course, you know, 25 years ago I switched to the New Living Translation. It is one of my favorite translations. I read, I study, I preach from the New Living Translation and I've partnered with Tyndale Bibles to do a giveaway of a premium New Living Translation Bible and I'll be letting you know more about that. Check out our social media, Facebook, Instagram, follow
[email protected] and you can find out how to become part or how to get in on that giveaway. It's going to be coming in the month of May. So today we're going to jump into a conversation that hits deep with Some people, betrayal and abandonment. Have you ever been let down by someone you trusted? Maybe a friend turned their back on you? A relationship fell apart? You felt completely alone when you needed someone the most. Man, if that resonates with you, I want you to stick with me. Because today we're going to talk about the pain of betrayal. But more importantly, my hope is how we will help us move forward to find hope in the middle or after, or for some of you, before it even hits. Now, this will be a two part conversation. I'll be in the studio next episode with a good friend, a pastor, a professional counselor, a former Marine. And we're going to be talking about this in a deeper way. And today I just wanted to set the sage for this topic, this conversation, and share a personal story. Over the last couple days, I've had the opportunity to sit with a few folks and they've asked, what's your story?
[00:06:37] So here on the rfp, I feel like you know us, a lot of you know us well. But I want you to know the deeper story of who I am and why. This topic is one that resonates with me. Um, there's a reality that betrayal and being let down, abandonment is very real for some of you. There's some PTSD that comes around this thought and I don't minimize anybody's ptsd.
[00:07:10] I don't minimize the pain, the anxiety, the hurt that you feel.
[00:07:14] My hope is that talking about this, we can move forward in a path of healing. That's the whole goal of the rfp.
[00:07:24] We're moving in a new direction where I don't want it to just be all about exposing or calling out, but I want us to help the recovering side and finding hope in the hurt. I've been a pastor in ministry full time for 25 years and I'll share in just a moment. My story of why this topic is one that resonates very deeply with me. And I know if you're not in ministry that there are moments in your life where abandonment has happened, betrayal has happened. A friend, family, spouse, kids, job. We all feel this at some level. Of course, I speak from a pastoral side, but it's also happened with friends and it hurts. We don't minimize that, but we have to find a path forward and that's my hope as we unpack this over these next two episodes. Betrayal is one of the hardest things to experience because it always comes from someone close.
[00:08:33] A stranger can't really betray you. It's the people we trust, we love, we rely on who have that power.
[00:08:43] I mean, think about Judas, one of Jesus own disciples. He walked with Jesus, witnessed miracles, shared meals with him. And yet for 30 pieces of silver, he sold him out. Peter, who swore he would never deny Jesus. And then within hours of Jesus arrest, he did that very thing not once, not twice, but three times.
[00:09:08] Jesus, the Son of God, the one who perfectly loved, was abandoned by some of those closest to him.
[00:09:17] So if you've ever been betrayed or left behind, lied about, slandered, you're not alone in that pain.
[00:09:26] Jesus understands it deeply.
[00:09:30] Now there is an emotional toll. Let's be real.
[00:09:33] The trail hurts.
[00:09:35] It shakes our confidence, makes us question who we can trust, if we can even trust anybody, if we can even trust anybody with our feelings. For some, it leaves us feeling unworthy, unlovable. Abandonment especially can trigger deep wounds, whether from a parent, a spouse, close friends. And maybe right now you are wrestling with some bitterness. Maybe you're struggling to forgive.
[00:10:08] You're just feeling loss.
[00:10:10] Hey, I get it.
[00:10:13] But here's the thing. I want you to understand that pain doesn't get a final say.
[00:10:20] It can make you bitter. It can make you better.
[00:10:24] I believe that Jesus felt this same weight in the Garden of Gethsemane. I've had the opportunity to teach in the Garden of Gethsemane, to pray at some olive trees in the Garden of Gethsemane. It was one of the most powerful moments for me when I was in Israel, because when I read the story, I always think of it as a garden far away but man, where Jesus would have prayed in the Garden of Gethsemane. He could literally see the city of Jerusalem. He would have been able to see Judas and the soldiers coming to arrest him.
[00:11:04] I would wager to say that he could see Calvary.
[00:11:07] And so he felt that weight, knowing what was coming. He was overwhelmed, praying so intensely that he sweated blood.
[00:11:18] He asked his disciples to stay awake with him, to be there for him. But guess what they did? What? They fell asleep.
[00:11:26] And when the soldiers came, they ran. Yet Jesus still loved them. He still went to the cross for them. And so I say all that to say this. If you feel the weight of this topic today, just know you're not alone. There is an emotional toll that comes with that. And some of you, it is crippling. It's debilitating.
[00:11:49] It hurts.
[00:11:51] I can tell you from experience the conversations that you have in your mind, trying to figure out the why, trying to understand, is it something I said? Something I did? Who I am, what happened there's a lot of questions that go unanswered.
[00:12:13] A lot of times it will steal your joy.
[00:12:16] But I've also learned that John, chapter 10 and verse 10 is very real. That the thief, the devil, the enemy of God, he's come to steal and to kill and destroy. What has he come to steal? Your joy. There's a big difference in joy and happiness. And when you are in the middle of betrayal, abandonment, slander, that joy does not feel real.
[00:12:41] It's not a very joyful time. But Jesus wants to give you joy. In the midst of that, it can happen.
[00:12:50] He wants to steal your joy. He wants to kill your witness.
[00:12:54] Unfortunately, in the day and age that we live, you're guilty upon accusation. You're. You're guilty with your witness because abandonment. You wonder why. What happened? Where did these people go? What is being said for us in the ministry world, Pastor world? When people leave our church, when people leave our lives, we wonder what's being said? How is it being said? How am I being portrayed now? We don't live from for that acceptance, but it does hurt.
[00:13:25] It kills our joy. It steals our witness, and for some, it destroys our life.
[00:13:30] And that verse would be pretty depressing if it stops there, but it doesn't. It goes on to say, but I have come, Jesus came.
[00:13:38] That we can have real and eternal life. I love new living. Translation. A better life than we've ever imagined for you that, like the King James life, more abundantly full of joy.
[00:13:51] So today I want to share my story, where I have lived. John 10:10 out. I'll be honest with you. It is Monday, March 17th, and I feel that very real, very heavy today. So I'm not speaking as one that has just been through this. I'm living through this right now, in my life, in this moment.
[00:14:19] And so if today's episode, my hope is that it will speak to you, that it will encourage you, and that as we hear stories, we will find a better story.
[00:14:30] Because my story is a story of pain and hurt, but also one of joy and triumph. And I believe that when our stories intersect with God's story, it tells a better story.
[00:14:45] So I want to go back to where I started, man, almost 20 years ago now.
[00:14:51] I took a job after moving home from a place called Yackinville, North Carolina.
[00:14:59] When I was in Yackinville, North Carolina, in the month of May, I was sitting right outside of Yackinville, North Carolina, at a dairy farm, actually.
[00:15:09] And I gave Jesus the steering wheel of my life. I said yes to Jesus caveat to that. I was 15 days away from getting married to a pastor's daughter, and my whole world changed. In that moment. I knew that things would not be the same. I went from one that had the look down, the act, smell, the talk, the whatever. But in that moment, my life changed. I said yes to Jesus. I put my yes on the table.
[00:15:37] Ten days before the wedding, we called it off, and I moved home to Chattanooga. Shortly thereafter, I got a job, an anchor of Hope Baptist Church on Lakeview Drive in Rossville, Georgia.
[00:15:52] There was a pastor who hired me. I didn't pay attention to it. I'm early 20s, young, paid me in cash. I was like, this is great.
[00:16:03] Two months in, I came in on a Wednesday night. The pastor, associate pastor, the deacons, the trustees were all in one room. And I walked by the door. He said, hey, man, we need you to come in here. I was like, all right. I walked in. They slid an envelope towards me. He said, here you go. We need you to sign that. I was like, what is that? He said, your resignation letter. I said, buddy, I'm not going anywhere. I don't know what you're talking about. He said, we're all done tonight.
[00:16:30] I said, no, no. I got to go up and preach. Youth groups. Y'all have fun. And what I didn't know after being there for two months was there was a lot of stuff going on at that church. Now, I won't go into the weeds here with everything that was going on, because there's still a lot of things that are unsure about embezzlement, fraud, a lot of things being thrown around. There was a lot of. It was a. It was a not a good time. I've never seen police show up at a deacons meeting, but I did at this independent Fundamental Baptist church.
[00:17:06] So all I know is by Wednesday evening, the end of my message, the room started filling up with parents thinking that I was telling the students I was leaving. I wasn't.
[00:17:17] And so that started a journey where the pastor left, and I was preaching on Sunday morning a lot of times, leading the music, doing youth groups on Sunday nights and Wednesday nights, and we were doing that for a season. Met my beautiful wife, Kim, two years after stepping away from almost getting married, from moving home. I didn't know what God was doing. I just focused on being a youth pastor. And then I met Kim on this wonderful thing called MySpace.
[00:17:51] Oh, that was the. Before farmersonly.com but we met on MySpace and started dating long distance. She was in Paris, Texas. I was in Rossville, Georgia. And I was working at J103 during that time. And so she would tune in on Sunday nights and I'd give her little shout outs. J103 Shining the Light hey, Kim. Just little things like that.
[00:18:15] Kim moved down. We decided that if we were going to take this relationship to a deeper level, that we needed to be closer. And I had a job here.
[00:18:25] Even though it was crazy and there was a lot of things going on with no leadership, it was. It was interesting.
[00:18:35] So Kim gets here, and I'm preaching one Sunday morning. KIM sings and long story short, that place kind of went. It was an independent Fundamental Baptist church. There was a petition going around that Kim couldn't sing anymore because she wore a pair of pants. We had a youth event where we had about 5, 600 teenagers show up. And the only thing that got broke was this metal sign that went over the exit sign. So I bought it up, threw it in the trash. Praise God for the four or five students that got saved that night. I was so excited. I came in on Sunday morning, and that metal sign was sitting on my desk with a note that said, we never want those hellions in our church again. And y'all, it broke my heart. I was like, you got to be kidding me. This is a country club. It's not a church. Well, that was the week before Thanksgiving. We made it all through December, and it was the first Sunday of January, or, excuse me, the last Sunday of the year. Right before January. It was December 31st, actually. I walked in and said, I'm going to step away.
[00:19:37] This place has lost vision.
[00:19:40] There's. There's a lot of chiefs and no Indians, if you will. And I set the metal sign down on the. On the table and said, and this is not a place for hellions. This is a country club. And I just can't be part of it. And so I cleaned my office out and left. I didn't know where I was going to go. Kim and I had gotten engaged. We were soon to be married. And I was not going to bring a wife into that environment because the vileness, just the things that people were saying. I was like, this. This is rough. So I went work to Cracker Barrel. It was great. And I was there for a while, had these guys that kept coming in, and I didn't realize that Tuesday and Thursday, they were interviewing me for a job. I said, okay, let's. Let's do this. And he said, we want you to be our youth pastor. I said, sweet. He said, when can you start. I said, right now. So I went in, told, gave my two week at Cracker Barrel and left in my Cracker Barrel uniform and joined up with church at KATUSA meeting in the Colonnade here in Ringgold. And it was awesome. It was young, it was vibrant, it was fresh. It was new for me because I had only been in independent Fundamental Baptist churches. This church was a SBC church plant here in this area. Young.
[00:20:52] The pastor had been there a few years and two weeks. Two weeks to the day that I started. I get in the truck with the pastor. He looks at me and says, JC we brought you here for a reason. I said, oh, really? What's that? He said, look, man, we. We followed what was happening at Anchor of Hope. We know how the pastor left, how you stepped up and. And served, even in the middle of some craziness that was going on there. And when I say crazy FBI, gbi crazy again, we won't go into details, but it was loony. He said, we need you here. He said, I'm leaving. I said, oh, okay. Well, it's been nice knowing you. I mean, me and the dude barely knew each other. I'd only been there two weeks. And so we went to lunch and we come back and he told the staff that had been there with him, some great people, that he was stepping down. And so here I am, early 20s, had just left a church that I'd been at for about three years. I'm new youth pastor here. And the pastor leaves about a month after I got there, but he told me two weeks after I started. And so it went into, long story short, pastoring as preaching on Sunday mornings, doing youth groups on Sunday nights. Things were going well.
[00:22:04] We were growing, actually. And then the elders came to me and said, hey, do you want to pastor this church or do you want to be the youth pastor? I said, I want to be the youth pastor. I said, ok. I said, just let me be part of the process of who we bring in, because this church is growing and God's doing something here. And I want to. I'm shepherding, I'm leading. I want to help. And so they said, okay, well, fast forward a couple months. Kim and I on October.
[00:22:36] Oh, man. 10, 4. October 4, 2008. I know when I got married. I know my anniversary. We got married, went off to Puerto Vallarta, Mexico, and it was an awesome time. We didn't know that the elders found somebody because before we left, we weren't even talking about a candidate.
[00:22:59] But when we landed my phone Blew up and they hired somebody. I was like, okay, this is interesting. We weren't even talking about anybody a couple days ago, and now we've hired somebody. So I walk in on Sunday morning after being in Mexico for seven days to meet my new boss, not having a clue who it is. I walk in, and he wasn't outside shaking hands. He was sitting backstage in the dark. I turned on my phone, flashlight. That's how dark it was. And I said, my new boss back here. And I seen the guy who it was. And I had run into him a couple times here in town. He'd been a youth pastor at four or five churches.
[00:23:39] He said, hey, good to meet you. That was it. It was kind of cold. I didn't think anything about it. Well, church starts. We're packed out that day because the announcement went out. We had hired a pastor, packed out, and this guy walks out on stage. And I am not even joking. These are the exact words. He said, hey, my name. And he said his name. He said, I love Jesus. I love the Bible.
[00:24:04] I don't really like people. So let's get into the Word.
[00:24:08] And you want to talk about throwing a wet blanket on everything. It just got weird. People were coming up to me, what have we done? Who do we hire? And I'm like, I don't know. I was in Mexico. I don't even know where we found this guy. Long story short, in his first few months, he had fired Eddie, our worship leader. Made up some ridiculous stories about him. A couple months later, our children's director was gone, and it was. It was dicey there for a while. The church started shrinking, but the youth group was still growing, and we had people. I could see that it was not.
[00:24:47] Not going to be a good situation because folks stopped coming on Sunday morning, and they were coming on Sunday nights to youth groups. And I didn't know how to stop that. I told my wife. I was like, this is not a good deal. Where kind of creating two churches here. We got to put an end to this. And so I begged people to come to church on Sunday morning. Stop just coming to youth groups on Sunday nights. And we started getting up to 100, 150, 200 on Sunday nights. A lot of teenagers, a few adults. Well, fast forward two years later. It was January 14, 15 years ago, the day before my oldest son was born. I get called into an office. There sits the elders, the pastor. And the conversation started. J.C. you're not working out here.
[00:25:33] I said, okay. Why? He said, you don't have the Same vision that we have. And I said, well, you're right. I don't have a vision of running people off, because that's all you've done since you started here. He said, no, no, we feel that it would probably be best if you stepped aside. And I just plainly asked, are you firing me? And he, no, no, We. We just want you to step away. I said, well, I don't want to go anywhere. Here we are again. I said, I don't want to go anywhere. I would rather stay. He said, I think it would be wise if we moved on.
[00:26:03] And I said, I'm not sure where this is coming from, but here's what I need. I need you to understand that we're going tomorrow to have our firstborn son. So I need some confidence that I'm going to be okay for a season and I'll move on, but I need to work out for two months so I don't have to tell my wife, who's getting ready to give birth, that I just got let go. I don't want to have any kind of stress on her for that. But at the end of that two months, allow me to get up on a Sunday morning and on Sunday night and to just share that we're moving on. I don't want to bash the church. I don't want to hurt the church. I'll just be honest. Just say we feel God's moving us to a different direction. I feel like that would be wise because. And I called him out. You have lied about the two former staff members that you fired about the reasons for their leaving. And I just don't want to give you the luxury of lying about where I'm going.
[00:27:00] They said, okay to that. We also had in that contract that is signed, by the way, that I would work at, get seven months of severance and that my insurance would stay on.
[00:27:11] I said, okay, this is great. We're good to go. We go have the kid. We come home. We're on the way home. Phone rings, and I get a message that said, hey, J.C. we've kind of decided if we're gonna honor the agreement that we came to, we're gonna need a resignation letter. I said, well, I'm not. I'm not resigning. Y'all are, in all intents and purposes, firing me. He said, no, no, we feel like we need a resignation letter on file. And so I just went and found a resignation letter and sent it to him. I have no idea whose resignation letter I sent them. And when they said that, they said, what is this? I said, it's a resignation letter. He said, it's not yours. I said, I'm not resigning. So that's about as good as my resignation letter.
[00:27:54] And that was when they asked me never to come back.
[00:27:57] Mind you, nothing happened. There was no immoral, immorality, slander, nothing. Literally nothing. It shocked me and I said, okay. So that's it. Just like that done. To this day, I haven't seen one check of severance. To this day, I didn't get my last paycheck. They cut my insurance off the day before my oldest son was born. They didn't pay me back for paying for summer camp out of pocket. They still owed me about 20 to 30 thousand dollars. But I just let it go. I said, okay. I've always been taught vengeance is mine, saith the Lord. I'm going to let it go. And if I could tell y'all, for the first time, we really felt church hurt. We really felt abandonment, betrayal.
[00:28:49] We didn't understand it. We had a seven day old baby in the car. My wife losing her mind, not knowing how we're going to pay the bills.
[00:29:02] It got bad.
[00:29:04] The rumor mill around this city went crazy. My wife would go to Walmart at 2:00 in the morning to get groceries because she just didn't want to run into anybody. One of the things that hurt the most, nobody reached out, nobody called, nobody text. One family, Tom and Cindy, their daughter Natalie, came to the house, knocked on the door, and my wife melted in her arms. Our small group silence, it was like we had committed an unpardonable sin and we did not even understand.
[00:29:44] I'm thankful there's a pastor in town. His name is Billy Crystal. Not the actor. He was a youth pastor at a church down the road. And he said, hey man, I heard what happened. I don't like it. I want to give you the opportunity to at least say goodbye to your students. And so he let me come down. Burning Bush Baptist, great church. Joseph Dennis Eddie, the former worship leader that was with me at this church, is now the worship leader at that church. So that Wednesday night I got to preach. Place was packed. My students, their students, people in community, just wanting to get the dirty details, if you will.
[00:30:19] I didn't say a word about him. I preached about Jesus being our solid foundation.
[00:30:25] And then we moved on.
[00:30:27] It was hard.
[00:30:30] Hurt. That pain I still feel in my gut.
[00:30:36] It still wrecks me at times.
[00:30:39] We didn't know what to do, we didn't know where to go.
[00:30:44] I was so Hurt.
[00:30:46] I went back out on the road singing full time with a group called Three Bridges. So I'm on the road singing. We're leaving on Thursday. They're picking me up at the Nashville airport in the bus. And we're coming back on Mondays. We got a brand new baby. Kim went back to work. I just didn't like it. And so I came off the road and we sent out a couple resumes and God led us to Salt Lake City, Utah. We got to Salt lake, we moved 38 hours away from anybody and everybody that we knew. It was great. I loved it. I'm lying. I hated Utah. It was hot. It was hot and cold and dry. And the people are different. It was such a different culture. But we grew and we healed and we felt the presence of God like never before. Mike Gray, Dixie Gray loved on us. Two hurting young people that showed up in Utah, broken, crushed, feeling the weight of abandonment and betrayal.
[00:31:54] Lied about, slandered, and they took us under their wing and they loved us.
[00:32:01] My wife will tell you that two years in Salt Lake was two of the most impactful years of our life.
[00:32:07] Mike and Dixie, I love y'all and I just want to thank you.
[00:32:11] There's an associate pastor there named John Prim. John's crazy, man. That guy taught me so much in two years.
[00:32:19] It was a desert season in our life, but it was important that we went to the literal desert to hear God speak.
[00:32:32] Fast forward. We were there for two years and I get a call from a great church here in North Georgia called Rockbridge Community Church. And a huge group of the church that had left Church of Catoosa was driving down to Dalton and they wanted a campus of that multi site church here in Ringgold.
[00:32:56] Long story short, I get the call, said, no, we're here in Utah now.
[00:33:00] The thought of coming back to North Georgia, I just didn't. I didn't. I couldn't do it. I didn't know what people were saying. I didn't know what people were thinking. I was like, there's no way we're going back to North Georgia. We actually said no a couple times. And then we had a young man that was in our youth group, Tony Bauman, passed away, was killed in a car wreck. I came back, did his funeral, ran into Matt, the pastor at Rockbridge, and he said, hey, man, great, great speaking up there. Heard a lot about you, would love to talk. So I agreed to an interview. Y'all listen when I tell you I tried to not get the job. I changed my son's diaper while doing the interview. It was so bad. I was taking drinks, my Dr. Pepper. I got up at one point because the Mormon missionaries. I'm not even joking. The Mormon missionaries knocked on my door in the middle of the interview, and I went up and said hello and said, I'm actually on an interview. Come back later. It was so crazy. I get a call back and they're like, bro, that was one of the best interview views we've ever had. I was like, man. So here's a note to self. If you're ever trying not to get a job, don't do what I did. If you want a job, just act like you don't care. I'm kidding. Horrible advice. That's what I did, though. And so we. We knew that God was calling us back here to North Georgia. There is something about Catoosa county that I can't get away from, and I'll tell you more about that in a little bit.
[00:34:21] But I knew there was something that had to be done before I came back.
[00:34:27] There was a root of bitterness that was growing in my heart.
[00:34:32] There was pain and anger, bitterness from the frustration, the abuse of words, the betrayal, the lies, the slander.
[00:34:45] I got on a plane and I flew back here to North Georgia, and I went to that pastor's house, and I knocked on his door. Y'all, listen, I'm not going to sugarcoat it. I didn't like the guy. I had so much hate in my heart towards him. I hate to say that, but I did.
[00:35:03] I did.
[00:35:04] And I knocked on the door, and he opened it up. He talked to me through the glass door. This is exactly what he said. What do you want?
[00:35:12] I said, hey, man, I just need to let you know that I don't like you. We're never going to be friends. I don't want you to go out to eat with me or go play golf, but I need you to hear me. I forgive you, and I mean that. You have put my family through hell, literally, but I forgive you. I'm coming back to this area to pastor, and I just need you to know that I forgive you.
[00:35:38] He said, whatever. Shut the door.
[00:35:41] I said, okay. I turned around and y'all, when I tell you, it was like a weight lifted off my shoulders.
[00:35:47] I got in my car and I told Kim, I said, we're good. Let's do this.
[00:35:52] Come back to North Georgia. We started Rockbridge Community Church in the Remco shops. It was awesome. Loved. It was growing.
[00:36:02] A few months after we started that church, where he was the pastor at went bankrupt and closed.
[00:36:10] That church is no more.
[00:36:14] You remember that contract that I told you I had? I reached out to a lawyer. He said, jc, you could sue, you could, you could get what you were promised, but I can never pull the trigger on it.
[00:36:29] Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord. And then looking ahead, all those years later, that church went bankrupt and shut down.
[00:36:39] They owned a piece of property that my current church actually sits on the corner of. You don't talk about full circle.
[00:36:46] They filled in a pond on this property and got a big fine. All the money went towards that.
[00:36:53] People stopped showing up and the church literally shut its doors from one of the most thriving churches in this county to closed.
[00:37:03] And God spoke to me very clearly and said it wasn't audible. I hope if I ever hear the audible voice of God, he sounds like Morgan Freeman, but that's for another time. But he said, I got you. I could have gotten in the flesh, acted out on that abandonment, that hurt, that hatred, and sued them and got some money.
[00:37:21] But coming back, it would have been, that's the kid, the pastor that sued the church that went bankrupt, but I didn't have to do anything.
[00:37:31] Now am I saying that it shut down because what they did to me. Not at all. But that was just God confirming that he is in control. Did it hurt? Yes. Would I change anything?
[00:37:43] No.
[00:37:45] We gave my 30s to Rockbridge.
[00:37:51] It's a big church. I'm a campus pastor. Campus pastoring, I learned, just wasn't really for me. I was middle management. I was a facilitator, if you will. But it's a great church, doing good things. Every church has its ups and downs, but we knew God was calling us away from there. We started in the Remco shops and long story short, moved into a new facility October 19th.
[00:38:17] Excuse me. October of 2019, right before COVID hit, I was up on our nine acres of land in Ringgold, here in this town where we had a 40,000 square foot slab. There were two still beams up and God spoke and said, JC, you're done.
[00:38:32] You've done what I've asked you to do here. It's time to go. That made no sense at all. I had been to this point where we're about to finally not have to worry about parking issues. We're going to have a big building. God saying, you're done. I was like, no way. When told leadership, I don't know where I'm going, but I know that I'm not supposed to be the one that pastors in this building moving forward.
[00:38:55] They said, all right, well, just stay here and help us get into the new building, and then when you get a job, we'll go. I said, all right, that sounds good.
[00:39:04] So I started with some conversations. Big church in Chicago. Wanted me to come. Couldn't find peace about that. There's a church in South Georgia, Statesboro, Georgia. I said, I think this is. This is a good place. Went down for an interview. And then they went on a hiring freeze because this little thing called Covid hit.
[00:39:23] You want to talk about a crazy time to be alive? I quit my job, told them that I was supposed to leave. Now nobody's hiring. We're doing church online.
[00:39:33] There was this whole season of like, what's going to happen? Where am I supposed to go? What am I supposed to do?
[00:39:41] July. Fast forward July of 2020. We woke up on a Wednesday and I said, babe, let's take the kids to the beach. So we go down to Tybee island. We're swimming. We come home, we drive through Statesboro, drive around the church. Pastor calls and said, hey, are you. You still interested? I said, yeah, I am. He said, let's talk. One thing led to another.
[00:40:00] First Sunday of August, we moved in at Rockbridge to the brand new, incredible building up on the hill. Monday morning, that church called and offered me the job, and I stepped down. It was moved into a brand new building on Sunday, quit on Monday. You want to talk about timing? God is a God of timing, his kindness. Oh, my goodness. It was like 10 years, nine and a half years of work. God said, okay, here you go. I got to serve as campus pastor for about three, four weeks in there. And then we moved to south Georgia.
[00:40:34] South Georgia was an incredible time. We went down to be youth pastors, Started a college ministry called college nights that is still thriving to this day. But I learned a lot about ministry in south Georgia and also learned that north Georgia and south Georgia people are totally different.
[00:40:54] I'm a north Georgia person. I learned that really quick.
[00:40:57] We got in there and started growing, had a good staff.
[00:41:02] I was a young couple that was quickly becoming like family. This young couple was at our house a lot, eating. My kids called them aunt and uncle. We love them. In fact, we. They stored all their stuff in our house when they were getting a new house. We helped them pay their down payment. We bought their honeymoon.
[00:41:24] We took these kids under our wings. They were young, believed in these guys.
[00:41:30] On Thursday, before this took place, took the young man to coffee. Said, man, I feel like God has called you to step up into some incredible leadership roles. Here's a few things that we need you to do.
[00:41:46] I want to hand you off the position of student pastor in the future, but let's start getting there.
[00:41:52] Great conversation. On Thursday.
[00:41:55] We had church Monday morning. I sent a text to the group, and I get a very harsh response back, I'm not your slave. Whoa, whoa, whoa. What? What is that? Where'd that come from? I walk around the corner to this young man bowing up on me, drew his fist back, and literally physically tried to fight me. You want to talk about not having a clue where this is coming from?
[00:42:20] That led to the staff coming out. They literally were holding him back. And I'm like, what is actually happening here? This wasn't the first time. This was a pattern. He had done this a few weeks before to our executive pastor in the hallway, had run ins with a couple people in the church. It was. It was just a pattern.
[00:42:43] One thing led to another, and he ended up stepping down.
[00:42:49] But they asked him if he would stay. And so opposed to my wishes because obviously this is very tension here. He stayed on, and it was just causing some weird controversy. A couple weeks later, he said, I'm out. You want to talk about hurt in that moment, Betrayal in that moment, man, this guy went from somebody I was investing in, pouring my time, my passion, my energy in only to him to literally try to physically fight me and walk away. And that hurt. That hurt worse than anything I'll ever understand.
[00:43:26] And unfortunately, it kind of got things twisted there and to the point where some lies were told, to the point where some slander was believed, which led to me and the pastor having a conversation where he straight up cussed at me, lied to me. That hurt. I didn't understand it, didn't know what was going on. I found myself sitting again in an elders meeting with the pastor.
[00:43:58] And the only thing that was brought up was the fact that I had called the pastor a liar a few months before. Me and the pastor and two elders were in a meeting.
[00:44:12] We were having a conversation about this whole Chris incident.
[00:44:16] The pastor, who had a very short temper, stood up and punched the table and told me I was doing a bleep, deep bleep job as youth minister.
[00:44:26] I said, well, man, first off, you've never been to youth ministry. Your kids don't come. I don't know how you know that. It's actually thriving and doing pretty well. I was asked to leave the room, come back in. He had been reprimanded. He apologized for that.
[00:44:39] Fast forward three months, I'm sitting in his office, and he starts losing his temper again.
[00:44:45] And I said, are we about to have another moment where you tell me I do a blankety blank job? He said, I never said that. I said, bro, you're a liar. You 100% said that two elders called you out. He said, I never said it. I said, well, you're a liar.
[00:45:02] And that led to me being asked to not show up at church that Sunday, the very first day that we were going to kick off youth groups on Monday. I was in this elder meeting, and they said two things. One, you called our pastor a liar. I said, because he lied. They said, two, we feel like you're. You're confrontational with him. And I said, no, I just don't like lying. I hate lying.
[00:45:27] I said, well, we can't have you calling our pastor a liar.
[00:45:30] He told me that the reason that other guy went off was because of my leadership. So I just said, well, does that make you a bad leader? Because you're my leader, and if my leadership is that bad, does that make you a bad leader? They couldn't handle that. I learned quickly this elder board who never rotated off, these guys had been elder. These guys had been elders, some for the least four years, the most, almost nine, 10 years. It was a group of yes men.
[00:45:58] They said, you just can't say that about our lead pastor.
[00:46:02] So we're going to ask you to step away and we'll figure this out. I said, hold up. I need to know. Did I do anything morally wrong? Well, no, no, not at all. I said, is this job performance? No. And I knew it wasn't. Youth groups were growing. We were running 800 to 1,000 college students every Wednesday night. No way in the world was it job performance. I said, have I done anything other than call the lead pastor out? I said, we're done. We're not going to have this conversation. They gave me two options in that moment. Stay. But I was done preaching. I was just going to facilitate the staff, or I could take a severance package, sign an in D A and walk away.
[00:46:50] They asked me what I wanted to do. I think I shocked him in that moment because I said, I'm going to stay. They're like, well, you know, that means no preaching. I said, I know, but I didn't do anything wrong.
[00:47:03] This is upsetness because I called out the pastor, who none of y'all will do. He lied. Two of you sitting in this room were in that room and reprimanded him, you know, that he's lying about this.
[00:47:18] I said, okay, well, let, let, let's go on and we'll, we'll call you Monday and we'll figure out what the next steps were said. Sounds like a plan. They had no next step plan because there was no next step plan. They thought I would take the money, sign the NDA and run, but I didn't do anything. I get a call Sunday night, hey, J.C.
[00:47:39] we're going to ask you to probably not come back for the next couple weeks while we figure out what this transition looks like. And I said, here's the deal, guys. I'm not going to play this game. I've. I've been in ministry a long time, and y'all are going to continue to make my life hell and put things in until I step away. Because you know, I did nothing wrong. But I will step away.
[00:48:02] But I would like to ask you that I could say goodbye to the students.
[00:48:06] So I got to come back on Sunday night. I told our teenagers I had three minutes to tell our teenagers goodbye. They allowed me to come back on Wednesday night, and I was only given three minutes, but I took 10 and said goodbye and we stepped away. What you got to understand is God had already been working in our hearts about coming back to North Georgia. We didn't know what coming back here looked like.
[00:48:33] We knew that we weren't acting in obedience because here's the word. We were comfortable. Comfortable is the best paying job I had ever had.
[00:48:44] I was making a lot of money. We lived in a phenomenal house.
[00:48:49] Ministry was blowing up, but we were comfortable.
[00:48:56] In August of 22, a month before this took place, Kim and I were praying one night and said, we feel God's telling us to come home.
[00:49:07] And so even before all of this happened, the staff member bowing up on me, the slander, the lies, the elder board. We had already put the house up on the market and it sold for way more than we had paid.
[00:49:22] And we said, okay, and we moved home. It hurt. It was those feelings all over again from 20 years ago. But God faithful came home. 2022 of October, we started Hope Church. And listen, I'm still learning and processing through how to pastor.
[00:49:47] We've had people that have been part of us that are no longer part of us.
[00:49:52] Some just leave. Some tell you very vocally why they leave.
[00:49:56] It hurts. Betrayal is never easy, but it's something that we have to learn that in the midst of that, God is still faithful.
[00:50:07] I wanted to set the stage for the conversation that's coming in the next episode because one, there's a lot of misinformation out there. There's a lot of people that are running with stories that just aren't real.
[00:50:21] There's a lot of wondering and I'm the kind of person that just likes to keep it 100 I'm going to tell you flat out exactly how it is.
[00:50:32] And that is a laid out story of my journey for the last 20 years. Now, there's a lot of details that I haven't put into this just for time's sake and for boring you. And if you've made it this far, congratulations. But here's what I want you to understand.
[00:50:48] I look back at my 20 years that God has allowed me to work full time. 25 years with traveling, and I believe it now more than ever that God is always at work. Sometimes it is behind the scenes where he's doing things we are completely unaware of, but one day we benefit from. You remember when I told you earlier about the church that I pastor now sitting on the corner lot of the property from Church of Catoosa?
[00:51:17] Well, in God's faithfulness and kindness, it's just as somebody said, a God wink. I don't like that saying, but I said it.
[00:51:27] About 60ft behind where we have church right now, there's a barn. And it's in that barn where I did student ministry on this piece of property for two years.
[00:51:38] There's no church on this property. There's about 75 houses now on this piece of property. But that barn is still there. And every Sunday, every day that I turn into this church, I look back there and I remember God's faithfulness, God's kindness and the prayers that were prayed in that barn.
[00:52:00] In nights when I didn't understand what God was doing.
[00:52:03] In moments where it felt like God was saying no over and over and over again.
[00:52:09] Watching my kids as babies run around in that field. My wife and I sitting in that barn bawling our eyes out, not understanding what was going on where God was saying no.
[00:52:22] But 20 years later, we've learned that when he says no, a greater yes is in store.
[00:52:29] Betrayal. It happens. Abandonment is real.
[00:52:34] And if you're dealing with that today, I want you to understand that God feels your pain.
[00:52:41] He says, cast all your cares on me because I care for you. He feels it. He knows it.
[00:52:49] And maybe you're a pastor like me, you feel like throwing in the towel and quitting. You're walking down a road that you feel like you're all alone. I could tell you when you're in the middle of that, you don't feel like anybody else will understand what you're going through. I get it. I've been there. I've done that. I've got the T shirt.
[00:53:09] I felt like opening this podcast segment with Celine Dion singing All by Myself, because that's where I'm at. I'm sitting in a studio all by myself again.
[00:53:20] Now, Nathan and Dudley haven't abandoned me, but there's that feel that we're by myself.
[00:53:26] But I want you to understand and know that you are not alone, that God is always with you.
[00:53:34] And if today's episode has spoke to you in any way, I'd love to hear from you. You can send me a message, share my story. RFPmail.com share this episode with someone who needs it. Let's keep the conversation going. If you need prayer, please know that I'm here for you. My hope and encouragement is to be a encouragement to you as you move forward.
[00:54:02] We're gonna come back next episode with a buddy of mine. We're gonna break this down in a little bit more detailed way from a counselor standpoint, a pastor, give you some tools to move forward.
[00:54:16] Because I believe that there are steps to moving forward from betrayal. Maybe you're asking yourself right now, so how do I move forward when I've been hurt? Here are three things that I believe with all of my heart, and these are the things that will break down. You have to acknowledge the pain.
[00:54:32] We don't have to pretend that it didn't hurt. It does. I still feel it very real in me some days. Some days more than other. Hey, even Jesus acknowledged his pain in Matthew 27:46. He said, My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
[00:54:51] But even in that, he never lost his connection to the Father. So acknowledge the pain. Don't just put it in the recesses and pretend it never happened. Or hurt. Pastor, acknowledge the pain.
[00:55:05] And then the second step is you got to choose to forgive even when it's hard.
[00:55:10] Forgiveness doesn't mean what happened was okay. Did you hear that? Forgiveness doesn't mean what happened was okay.
[00:55:20] It just means that you're choosing to let go of the bitterness so it doesn't consume you. Jesus forgave Peter, reinstated him and his calling and his purpose.
[00:55:33] You can move forward.
[00:55:35] It's not going to be easy, but it's necessary.
[00:55:41] And then thirdly is trust that God is still with you. Trust that God is still working. I love Hebrews 13:5 he said, I will never leave you or forsake you. Even when people walk away, God remains. He's not just present, he's actively working for your good.
[00:56:03] So maybe you've been abandoned. But friend, you are not abandoned by God. Maybe you've been betrayed, but God is still faithful. So I want to thank you for tuning in to this episode.
[00:56:15] We're going to break this conversation down in the next episode and until then, hold on to hope. You are never alone. God bless.
[00:56:26] Peace be sweet. Thanks for listening to the Recovering Fundamentalist Podcast. Be sure to stop by our social media, Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. Give us a follow. Also go to our website, recoveringfundamentalist. Org. That's recoveringfundamentalist. Org. There you can find Recovering Fundamentalist Swag. You can get your T shirts and hats. You can join our X Fundy community. See where we're going to be having some meetups. It's the recoveringfundamentalist. Org. Be sure to join us next time for the Recovering Fundamentalist Podcast.
