167 - Missing The Mark (Part 2)

[00:00:25] Speaker A: The Recovering Fundamentalist Podcast starts in three. [00:00:28] Speaker B: You know what makes women cupid is called Jesus Was Not a Bartender. [00:00:33] Speaker C: High back two. [00:00:34] Speaker B: You have lost your mind, long tongue. Heifers have given me a lot more trouble than heifers wearing bridges. And you know that. Say amen right? There. One. Let me tell you something, Bozo. They'll be selling frosties in hell for this boy puts on a pair of pink underwear. Amen. I suck my thumb till I was. [00:00:52] Speaker A: 14 years of age. [00:00:54] Speaker B: Hi. Bye. [00:00:57] Speaker C: Everybody. Thanks for tuning in to the Recovery Fundamentalist podcast. We are your host, nathan Brian. I'm JC, and this is week two of our conversation that we started last week and excited to jump back into some of these areas where the church is missing the mark. Guys, have you had a great week? [00:01:16] Speaker B: Had an amazing week. [00:01:18] Speaker C: Nathan, you're in Nepal right now. [00:01:21] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, I'm in Nepal. When you release this? My bad. It's great. I hope it's great. Yeah, I'm having a great optimist. [00:01:32] Speaker C: Yeah. If you listen to last week, you know that we recorded this on one night. We've split it up because Nathan is in Nepal currently right now. Brian is in England currently right now. And I'm just in Nashville hanging out. And so we're excited about having this conversation today. But a couple of things real quick. We want to thank our sponsor, Free Life Soap. Go to recoveringfundamentalist.org. Use your promo code RFP, get 20% off of your order, and while you're there, be sure to click on the RFP network. Give all of them a listen. And thanks for sponsoring and being part of the Recovering Fundamentalist podcast. [00:02:08] Speaker A: Yeah, and guys, you're going to want to hang on for this conversation. Fellas, this has been a robust conversation. I've actually thoroughly enjoyed this. Not only has it taken me back down memory lane, but it's challenged me even in the present about who I am and what I believe and what I stand for. And it's just been an incredible conversation that I think everyone's going to benefit from. [00:02:33] Speaker C: And to hear the conversation because there's a lot that isn't making it on the podcast. Brian, tell them how they can hear the entire conversation. [00:02:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:02:41] Speaker A: You can go to recoveringfundamentalist.org. We are pulling back the curtain. It's called behind the mic. You can sign up. It's only $10 a month. You get to hear the humorous and the heinous. You get to hear all the mistakes and the mastery. You get to hear the conversations as we have them. And here's the great thing. You can feel good about doing this because you know you're supporting church planters who are on the front lines with their families, who have taken this bold step of faith for the sake of the gospel. And for just $10 a month, you can know the host of the RFP in a deeper, greater way than you ever have before, more than you've ever wanted to know about the three of us, and you can be supporting church planting. That's a win win. So go to the recoveringfundamentalist.org, click on behind the mic and get yourself signed up. [00:03:37] Speaker C: Amen. [00:03:38] Speaker B: Hey, Brian, you have a future in radio, budy. That was pretty good. [00:03:42] Speaker A: Thanks. That was off the cuff. [00:03:46] Speaker C: Well, guys, I hope you make it back home to the states. I miss you and have a good time in England and Nepal. [00:03:53] Speaker B: Until next week, have fun in Nashville. [00:03:56] Speaker C: Okay, we'll do it. Y'all ready to get this thing started? [00:03:58] Speaker B: Yes, sir. [00:04:00] Speaker C: Let's go. Hey, speaking of bus ministry, did y'all ever do the promotion of the world's longest banana split? [00:04:08] Speaker B: I've heard about it, but I haven't done it. [00:04:10] Speaker C: Indianapolis, Indiana, thompson road baptist church. My dad was a bus captain, and to get kids to his bus, we put a 20 foot gutter, filled it full of ice cream, hot chocolate. This is way before COVID And all these kids are out there eating this thing, and I was like, there's probably some really bad germs on this. But dad's bus was the fullest. What's some crazy stories you all got. [00:04:34] Speaker B: Well, before we talk about the crazy stories, I think bus ministry is a great idea. It's like a lot of things in ministry, they started out right, like, hey, let's load a bus. JC. Me and you work for young America for years, and we loaded vans up buses, get any way you can get people to the gospel. But when we say bus ministry in the there were there were people blasting on Facebook and Twitter this week about just bragging about things. And, man, I've heard some crazy things about bus ministry. As a matter of fact, some of the largest bus ministries in the country don't even get the kids off of the bus and take them into the church. And, man, I think that's just wrong, dude. They pull them into the property, give them some snacks, tell them a story, get any commitments, get cards filled out and professions of faith, and then drive them back home and drop them off. What does it say to kids? They can't even come in the church. They're literally just getting on the property. And from what I've heard, some of these bus ministries, they're running 300, 400 kids, and there's 80, 9100 people inside of the church worshipping. [00:05:48] Speaker C: Nathan, I love what you said. We are not saying there's anything wrong with bus ministry. [00:05:53] Speaker B: No. [00:05:54] Speaker C: Going to have a guest on in a few weeks, greg Steer, who is the founder and president of dare to share ministries. He was a bus kid. A pastor by the name of Yankee led him to Jesus. And it happened because he was bus kid. I was a bus kid. I mean, there's so many of us RFP FAM that either were saved or worked in bus ministry. However, there was a curveball side of that like you just talked about. Nathan, where it became less about the ministry of bus ministry, if you will, and more about the opportunity to grow or to bloat numbers. Is that a word? Bloat? [00:06:33] Speaker B: Yes. [00:06:34] Speaker C: Fake to lie. Let's just be honest. [00:06:37] Speaker A: Yeah, we used to sing a song when my dad pastored, Freedom Baptist Rural Hall, North Carolina that had a big bus ministry. You couldn't hardly compete with Gospel Light. I mean, they ran buses 3 hours away from their building, but we used to sing this song. Did you guys ever sing this? Bus them in, bus them in, bus them in from the fields of mean. Our whole congregation would sing it. I don't know how to put this guy, so I don't have wording for this. So if this comes out wrong, then forgive me for this, but I don't know how else to describe it. There was almost like a racial or a racist language connected to this because they were known as buz kids or the orange. What? [00:07:29] Speaker C: There's a lot of people that don't know what that means. The orange count. [00:07:33] Speaker A: Okay, so they were called bus kids. They weren't known by their names. They were categorized. They were kept separate from the other children. They were kept separate from the other youth. They were these kids that we brought on the property, but apparently they were contagious with something, so we had to keep them isolated and we had separate ministries for the bus kids. And I want to echo what you guys said. There was some great people who loved Jesus and loved people who were dedicated to that ministry, who would pray over their buses, who would give their Saturdays to try to advance the gospel. So there were some great people with a harvest mentality involved in bus ministry. But behind that often there were some manipulative parents. But my best bus kids story was my dad pastored at Freedom and hey, guys, I've never even told this story to you guys. You say I repeat stories. So this is a brand. [00:08:31] Speaker B: I think we all do. [00:08:33] Speaker A: Yeah, well, this is fresh warm bread. Second reference. This is fresh warm bread from an old tired outline. But I was going downstairs to use the bathroom and I guess I was about twelve years old and three kids that rode the bus, man, they jumped me as soon as I walked in the bathroom and two of them held me and one of them just gave me a good beat down. And I'm going to tell you what, from then on, I was nervous to go downstairs to the bathroom. I'm telling you, they gave me what, four? I could say it took three of them to beat me, but that'd be giving me too much credit. [00:09:29] Speaker C: Ethan, growing up in a boy's home, he's like, I call that Tuesday. [00:09:32] Speaker B: Yes, exactly. [00:09:34] Speaker A: So did you guys have the people who swallowed goldfish and did all that if the numbers were big enough, shave. [00:09:42] Speaker C: Their head, pie in the face, swallow the gold. [00:09:45] Speaker B: Yes, all kinds of things. And I guess that I don't mind promotions. We did that with Vacation Bible School and stuff like that. One of our Hope Church pastors did his beard red or something this summer because of a Vacation Bible School or a youth thing. So we're not saying everything's bad, it's just the heart behind it. And here's my big issue with bus ministry. Brian, as I said, JC and I started ministry together 20 years ago in the trailer parks. But man, we were so careful not to manipulate these kids. We wanted to build a foundation that we wanted them to understand the gospel. Yes, we wanted them to believe in Jesus, to get saved, to pray, to make a decision. We wanted that. But everybody knows how easy it is to manipulate people kids, especially kids that have really rough lives. So we're going to talk about easy believism. But man, we could have had 600. [00:10:51] Speaker C: Professions of faith and salvations and all this, but what I loved about Young American Ministries was we put a trailer in the trailer park. We built the relationship, the relational equity. It wasn't just come so we can say we have a thriving ministry. We were there and it was down and dirty. I mean, it was like doing life with them. It wasn't we go pick and then drop them off. We did life with them, and it's still going today. Patrick and man, that whole crew, they're still running it wide open and it's awesome. They're loving on people exactly where they're at. [00:11:26] Speaker A: So here's my question. So whether it's bus ministry in the IFB or whether it's modern day ministry, should there be any ministry connected to the church that doesn't ultimately focus or center on discipleship? [00:11:43] Speaker B: No, I don't think so. [00:11:45] Speaker A: No, there should be no desire to just pack a pew. No, there should be a desire like Jesus to gather with the Twelve to carry out a greater level, a deeper level of discipleship. And I think the problem with numbers, with focusing on numbers, with using the bus ministry so you can inflate your numbers, because we all remember those local churches that would have an attendance of 60 drive in people and then 200 on the bus ministry. And you know what's behind that. So I think it's the idea of gathering a crowd versus discipling the believers. And that's just a wrong focus. Whether it's in a contemporary church or a traditional church, whether it's in a church doing what we would call modern day ministry, or it's a church that focuses on a more past traditional type ministry. If we miss discipleship, guys, we're missing it. [00:12:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:12:57] Speaker C: Think it all boils down to priorities. [00:13:00] Speaker B: Sure. [00:13:01] Speaker C: Like your true priorities. Not just like I believe there's some people that have good intention, but their priority is skewed by applause, by acceptance, by if it's numbers, if it's whatever it is. I mean, just this past couple of weeks ago it's been about two weeks ago now, I dropped my son off at soccer practice, and I sat in my truck. There was a young man, 20 years old, standing on a sand mound, preaching. But he wasn't preaching. He was just waiting till people would walk by, and he would just start shouting Bible verses at them. And as the longer I watched him, the more I realized he's only reading Bible verses when women would walk by. And then as they would walk by, he would look up and down, and I was like, bro, I got to go have a conversation with this guy. And so I just walked up, and I wasn't confronting him. I just walked up and asked him. I said, hey, man, how are you doing? He said good. And he was very like, what do you want? And I was like, hey. I said, what's she doing? Said, I'm preaching the gospel that will never return void. I'm telling these sinners about Jesus. I was like, are you? I was like, are you? He said, well, yeah, that's exactly what I'm doing. I said, hey, man, I'm going to give you a straight up just my perspective of what you're doing. I think you have the right heart. I really feel like you have the right desire. I remember being your agent, having that burning desire to preach to anybody, anytime, anywhere. I said, but is the method that you're going about doing this the right method? I said, Point, in case you've been standing here. I've been sitting in my truck for 20 minutes watching you. Nobody's listened. Nobody's listening to you shout Bible verses. You're not preaching. You're just reading some scripture when they're walking by. And by the way you're checking every woman out. You might not want to do that if you're preaching at him. He's like he kind of looked at me like, what? But I said, Those three guys sitting under that tree over there, would you have more of an opportunity to tell them about the gospel? Not yelling, just random Bible verses? Because that's all he was doing, was just flipping through Bible verses and going and having a conversation with them. And then he said, Well, I rebuke you in the name of Jesus. I said, no, you're not allowed to do that. And he was rebuke me if you want, but I was like, no, you can't do that. I just walked away, and I was kind of like, man, I appreciate his passion, but the method was just kind of off. I know at certain points in ministry, all of us have been like, I'm going to go preach on the street corner, but are we really doing anything? We're yelling at cars and things. I think it comes down to priorities in certain ways. What are your thoughts? [00:15:40] Speaker B: Yeah, I think there's a right way to preach on the street I've heard one or two people, we were in Vegas, and someone was doing a pretty decent job. He actually shared the. [00:15:53] Speaker C: Friendly he actually shook our yes. [00:15:56] Speaker B: Yeah. So I have seen people do it the right way, but the majority of people, especially growing up in the IFB trained in that way to do was man, it was all doom and gloom. And there's a time to talk about judgment. If someone is absolutely running away from God wide open, warn them of the wrath to come. That's a part of sharing the gospel. But if all you do is yell and scream about judgment and you don't ever tell them the good news. Like, I was at Atlanta United Soccer game, my first professional soccer game, and walking out of the stadium, this dude was standing up on a rock yelling, screaming, preaching doom and gloom judgment. From the time I heard him to the time I got away, I never heard the gospel. All I heard is, I'm going to hell. God's mad at me. He's angry with the wicked every day. And he never shared the gospel, which is just as bad as someone standing out there telling everyone God loves you and not telling them that they need to get saved and that there is judgment that they need to worry about. So it's how they do it. [00:17:00] Speaker A: Well, I think what this comes down to, whether we're talking about bus ministry or whether we're talking about street preaching, it's the value of building a relationship with someone to open the door to the know. In talking about bus ministry, I think about a guy that I think all three of us know. You guys know a guy named Jimmy Caudall? They lived in a small place. They were very poor growing up. Through the bus ministry, Jimmy became a believer. His brother Gary became a believer. Now his brother Chris is a believer. The family, but there was relationship there, and I've heard him talk about that, how he was welcomed in. Well, I think what street preaching doesn't do is it really doesn't connect with anyone. The Apostle Paul and different ones, they preached in the market, but that was at a time when people would actually take the time to gather and listen, because debating scripture and debating theology was a common part of their culture. And so you could gain an audience. But let's just be honest. When cars are driving by and they've got their radios on and people are just walking by on their cell phones at some point in time, I wonder how closely that gets to casting pearls before swine. I can't say it's all the way there, but you get the idea. Because I know in Mount Airy, where I'm from, street preaching is still really common, believe it or not. And they gather on the corner right below the little famous restaurant from The Andrew Griffith Show called Snappy Lunch. And guys, to be honest with you, all they do is scream incoherent thoughts. I mean, they're out there slobbering and spitting and screaming and yelling, and even if you stop and stand and listen, you can't understand anything they're saying. And I think we forget sometimes that the apostles reasoned with people. They actually had engaging conversation. You are not carrying out, and again, I say this in the loosest sense, a representation of the apostolic past by standing on a street corner and screaming incoherent thoughts as cars as they drive by. It's just not reaching the mark. [00:19:26] Speaker C: I honestly cannot remember the name of the dude down in Florida that we. [00:19:30] Speaker B: Had on Nathan Rager. [00:19:33] Speaker C: There it is. Ding, ding, ding. His videos of him standing out there with a megaphone and nobody is listening. I mean, he's literally, almost, in a way, he's making a joke of the gospel that he's supposed to be preaching, not doing what he thinks. Now, I also want to give a flip side of this because I know that we have a lot of people that listen to the RFP, and there are some guys that listen to this that are passionate about street preaching, if you will. They feel like that's where they're at. They're not pastoring a church. They're not preaching anywhere. And so street preaching, in a way, is kind of where they preach, if you will, like that's their only spot. Can I just give another avenue that you might be able to do that I would highly encourage you to do? It is 2023. We have this thing called YouTube. You have TikTok. You have instagram. Live. Get on there. Nobody's stopping you. Preach sermons. Get on there and let a rip tater chip. And you're going to reach more people on YouTube, on TikTok, on Instagram with a message than you would standing on a street corner yelling at cars with the windows rolled up, the air condition on high and the radio on. And I think it's just what's the verse? I became all things to all people that I might reach some when they are preaching. I don't know if that verse fits in context right there, but when they're preaching are walking, nobody's in cars with windows and air conditioning and things like that so they can hear them. What the videos I see that are preaching, they're just yelling incoherent things. Get on YouTube. Our student pastor here at Hope Church, he has this desire to preach. And I said, here's the best way you can preach. If I was your age and if I just started in ministry, I would literally get on YouTube every night and just go live and just preach. You could have an audience. That dude's got three, four, 5600 people watching him live, and that's bigger crowd than any of us preached to when we were, you know what I mean? And so use the technology that God has given us for good. There's enough junk on TikTok why don't we start invading TikTok with the good news of the gospel? They need men that love Jesus, that have a passion to preach the gospel. Do it on that platform. Your street doesn't have to be the platform. Let TikTok be the platform. [00:21:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:21:58] Speaker A: Yes. And then how about this? If we truly believe, guys, that narrow is the way that leads to eternal life and broad is the way that leads to destruction, that applies to every generation, go cut your teeth preaching in a nursing home. You're not too good to preach to people who are in a nursing home, who are near to the point of stepping in eternity. And according to the words of Jesus, the majority of them are lost and in need of so. So go there. See it as a mission field. Did either one of you guys ever preach in the nursing home? [00:22:35] Speaker B: I have. Yeah. I got started out preaching in the jails and prisons in Chattanooga, as a matter of fact, when I was four years old. No, I wasn't four, because we were in Georgia. I was six years old. We used to go down to the Kmart. That tells you how old I am. We went down to the Kmart and my dad would stand me up on top of the red trash can, and I would preach on that red trash can, and we'd play music and sing. It was just something we did every week for a while. And yeah, I was six, seven years old, street preaching at the Kmart on a red trash can. [00:23:10] Speaker C: But I was four. We lived in Greenwood, Indiana, and mom and dad said, I'd get out on the balcony of the apartment. We're on the third floor, and I'll thinner. Goodness. [00:23:24] Speaker B: And speaking of that, God can use anything. There might be a rough dude that's on drugs, that strung out, that God's been working on his heart, and he may roll up to a red light, roll his window down and hear someone say, god's wrath is coming, and you need to flee from the wrath to come, and God's going to judge you and you're headed to hell. He may drive off, and the Holy Spirit could use that to convict him of his sin, but I would say that's definitely the exception. Rare rather than the rule. God can use anybody in any way, but let's try to be the most effective we can. [00:24:00] Speaker A: Well, what about the easy believism that. [00:24:02] Speaker C: We saw for me? [00:24:06] Speaker B: One, two, three, repeat after. I think this is really one of the core issues of all of these, the numbers. How do you get all the numbers? Well, you have to figure out some way to make the narrow gate really broad. [00:24:21] Speaker A: Wow. [00:24:22] Speaker B: Yeah. I'll jump on this one because this is really one of my passions, guys. If people do not understand the gospel, they do not get saved, man. Period. If they don't understand who God is if they don't understand the fall, if they don't understand sin, if they don't understand that Jesus is the only Savior, that he died, rose from the grave, lived a perfect sinless life, and they have to believe on Him, if they don't understand the gospel, they're not saved. The majority of gospel presentations for me growing up and Brian, you can speak to this. JC, you can speak to this. The majority of gospel presentations growing up was someone that got up and ranted and raved, never shared the gospel. But then at the end of the sermon, they'd say, every head bowed, every eye closed, if you don't know for 100% sure that if you died tonight you'd go to heaven, raise your hand. And then they would say something like, hey, if you want to know that you're going to heaven, raise your hand. Pray this prayer with me. Lord Jesus, I know I'm a sinner. Lord Jesus, please forgive me of my sins. I want to go to heaven when I die, in Jesus name, amen, or whatever variation of that. And I've had conversations with people right after they prayed that prayer, went back, got on the bus because I did bus ministry and stuff as a kid as well, or got back on the bus, got back on the van, or talked to one of my friends in the car. I remember talking to a friend as a teenager. He'd went down and prayed the prayer, and we got back in the car and I said, hey, tell me what happened. He's like, I went and prayed. I was like, yeah, why did you do it? Well, I don't want to go to hell. I said, well, what happened? What did you believe? Well, I believe that I was going to hell. I don't want to go to hell. And so now I'm going to heaven. They did not understand the gospel. If they don't understand the gospel, they're not saved so easy. believism is a big deal for me. [00:26:19] Speaker A: So don't you think that's why there's chronic doubt among virtually every individual who comes out of the Independent fundamental Baptist movement? Do you know guys? I know very few people, and I'm not going to call names because I love some of these guys, but I know men who are pastoring independent Baptist churches who can't even experience the joy of salvation because they can't get to the place of being fully convinced they're saved. They're pastoring congregations. And I think one of the other things since Nathan, you pointed out the thing that you find most offensive or most horrific about this. This is the thing that I would say. Where do we ever see in the Bible? Everybody bow your heads and close your eyes, and nobody look around. Nobody better be peeping. If you ask Jesus Christ to save you, raise your hand while no one is looking. Where is this secret salvation in the Scripture? Because in the bible right next to the believe what now? [00:27:37] Speaker C: Right next to the sinner's prayer. [00:27:39] Speaker A: Yes, but in the Bible, it was if you confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord, that was an open outward confession that would cost that people their standing in their family, their standing in their community, their job, and oftentimes it even cost those people their lives. It wasn't secretly, while everyone has their eyes closed, whispering this prayer that you're repeating. And so that really bothers me. And here's another thing, too. Once they do come to faith in Christ, the pastors start publicly condemning them for not being a great witness and not publicly living out their faith. Well, we have done such a great job at letting them get in so secretly that they just continue to live that way. And this is my thing. If you are truly convicted by the Holy Spirit, you don't care who knows that you are putting your faith and trust in Jesus Christ. So just bow your heads and close your eyes. And while nobody's looking and I can remember when I was a kid thinking somebody was going to punch me in the face if I even peeped under this cloak of darkness, everybody with their eyelids closed like Venetian blinds, go ahead and slip up your hand and then let's all celebrate. Twelve people came to faith in Christ. Man. Guys, there's something wrong with that. [00:29:16] Speaker B: Yeah, I had a conversation with a guy on Facebook Messenger this week, and he asked me what easy. I just when you were talking about that, Brian, I just remembered, and I just it's basically it basically looks like one, two, three. Repeat after me, not explaining the Gospel. If you died tonight, would you go to heaven or hell? No mention of turning from sin. For me, repentance is a part of salvation. Jesus preached repentance. The apostles preach repentance. It's in the Old Testament. New Testament. It's all through the Bible. That doesn't mean I'm cleaning myself up. I know a lot of people have a misunderstanding. It just means I'm willing to turn from my sin and trust in Christ. It's a change of mind that results in a change of actions. And why that's important is because you can go say, hey, if you die tonight, would you go to heaven or hell? Would you rather go to heaven or would you rather go to hell? Obviously, most people are going to say, I want to go to heaven, so repeat after me, and they pray the prayer, but are you willing to turn from your sin? Are you willing to stop worshipping idols? I believe that was a part of it. Old Testament and New Testament. And that doesn't mean I'm saying, god, I'm never going to look at something I shouldn't look at again. God, I'm never going to touch another drop of alcohol so you can save me. It's a change of mind that results in a. Change of actions, and it's coming humbly to Jesus and saying, I turn from whatever I was trusting in, and I trust in you as my Lord and Savior. Anyone who wants to lead someone in salvation without ever mentioning their issue, that's a problem. And sinners know this. I've had people tell me, yeah, I can't quit drinking. I can't quit getting drunk on the weekends. Well, that's a problem. They're not ready to be saved. They're trusting in that. They love that more than they love Jesus. But I've also had people say, you know what? It's not worth it anymore. I'm willing to turn from everything. You think Jesus would forgive me? Absolutely. He'll forgive. [00:31:26] Speaker A: I just I love that know, people say, well, you shouldn't preach on sin. Well, you can't preach the gospel without preaching on sin, because Christ died for our sin, so you have to deal with that. And I think, too, let's be honest, the whole stepping up on someone's doorstep when they're finally at home after work, and they've got on their pajamas and they're having a few minutes of peace, and they've had their door. Knocked on 15 times. And they know that all they have to do is say the prayer. So somebody will get off their porch and get on their way. That's just not effective witnessing. [00:32:05] Speaker B: Yeah. Hey, guys, we have a big list of things we want to talk about. We're going to have to turn this into four episodes, probably, so we've got two already recorded. But can we end on emotionalism? Can we jump to that one and talk about that? Because that ties right in with everything we were talking about. Unless you had a different idea. JC. [00:32:27] Speaker C: Oh, let's go. [00:32:28] Speaker B: Let's wrap it up on that one. So the whole emotionalism Brian camp meetings does a camp meeting exist as we knew it without emotionalism? [00:32:39] Speaker A: No, as a matter of fact, they lived for the emotionalism, the language that would be used all week long. And this is from when I was a kid. So this is not the adult Brian that people say, oh, he's an enemy of the IFB. This is Brian the Kid. [00:32:54] Speaker C: I remember. [00:32:55] Speaker A: Hey, like Billy the Kid. Brian the kid. [00:32:57] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:32:58] Speaker A: I remember hearing people say they just wanted it to get out of the banks. They wanted to get under the spout where the glory came out and all of that. What they were saying is, we want people to shout. There was even a big arbor meeting in Taylorsville, North Carolina, where people would come from all over, and I can remember if it hadn't gotten on. And we all know that's the language people would use on Friday night, they would just bring out all of the best shouting songs and they would sing them until those couple of women, the sirens started sounding off, and then they would play on that. You run down and you fan people or you take off your jacket and the pastor is fanning them. Or the pastor starts running all over the platform or he gets up in the center of the crowd. And guys, every bit of that is so it's acting. Those pastors know exactly what they're doing. And by the way, while I'm on this, let me go ahead and say a lot of pastors loved emotionalism because they didn't love studying. And I'm going to translate for everyone the big preacher preached. What that meant is I played golf three times this week or I hung out with all of my buddies and I didn't spend any time in prayer and I didn't spend any time in the Word. And I don't value the pulpit and I don't value God's word. So I just soon let somebody get up and share a testimony when God really didn't lay anything on their heart. And we're going to sing what a Day That Will Be until Sister Nellie starts shouting because we know on the second verse that's what's going to happen. And then we're just going to call it God Showed Up. No, God didn't show up. You are a lazy bum and you have no business having access to a pulpit because you refuse to study God's word. Start selling insurance. Stop preaching the Bible if you're not willing to study. And when you don't study, but for God's sake, don't blame it on Son Drop. [00:35:05] Speaker C: That was brought to you by Free Life Soap. Got a recovering fundamentalist. [00:35:10] Speaker B: Oh, man, Brian, I hadn't seen you get that stirred up in a long time. Bro, that was awesome. [00:35:16] Speaker C: You know where I think one of the biggest place that emotionalism plays out? Youth rallies. Think about this. We do. Especially in the IFB. My wife and I watched a youth rally a few weeks ago. We watched the same kid go to the altar 14 times before the preacher ever got up. And then at the end of the service and if I'm lying, I'm down my hand on this nice revival Leather Co Bible at the end of the service, went forward and then got saved. What were the other 14 times? It was a lot of emotionalism. It was this drawing that was what was happening in that moment. And we started counting because it was like every 5 minutes. Going down, going down, going down. And then got saved at the end of the service. And I can remember being in meetings where we would knock pentecostals for stirring up something. That's the exact same thing we do without speaking in tongues or falling out or running around with hula hoops. We just get the American flag and take off front. See what I'm saying? [00:36:19] Speaker B: Yes, exactly. And we're not saying emotions are wrong. God created us as emotional beings. I get emotional when someone preaches the gospel. I get emotional when I'm preaching. I hope I'm passionate when I preach. I hope it evokes emotions in people. But emotional ism when you tack that ism on the end of something. It's an extreme view of that. And we saw that, like, Brian, you were talking about when the big preacher shows up, something's wrong in church when the greatest possible thing that could happen is the pastor doesn't. [00:36:57] Speaker A: Oh, man, you're so right. [00:37:00] Speaker B: Something is wrong with that. Hey, JC. I remember being at Temple Baptist, and I want to give another shout out to Ken Trivet. Man, it would get on sometimes in that church. It was emotional. We had choirs, people running shout and singing the same verse over and over. It did get emotional. And Budy, I'm telling you, it was real. There were times where it was real, and I can't tell you how many times he would get up after that and say, open your Bibles. He was going to preach. It might be a three hour service, but he preached. And I appreciated that about him so much because I grew up in a church where the best thing that could happen is the preacher didn't preach. And I almost agree with them. That was the best thing that could happen, because I heard those preachers preach sometimes. And, man, you always know it's when. [00:37:47] Speaker C: You got cry night at camp, which is always Thursday or Wednesday cry night, then you always have Tuesday or Wednesday where what Brian just said, you're not going to preach. It's just a musical. [00:37:59] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. So we're not against emotions. I'm an emotional person. I appreciate that. God does use emotions to bring people into the family of God, and that's a part of it. But when you have emotionalism, when that's all you're aiming for, and Brian, you said it, it has to happen, or something was wrong. I remember being at a specific camp meeting and I heard all the same junk, the same cliches people getting up and preaching the same sermons over and over and just spewing the same you know, they're waving flags and running, jumping the aisles and shouting and screaming and preaching about women wearing pants and bullfighting britches and long haired hippies and all the people drinking beer. All this other stuff that stirs up the emotions. Basically, they were tickling ears because that's what that crowd wanted to hear. They were itching those ears. And I remember this preacher in the middle of that they would call preachers up sometimes. They called this older preacher up. And, man, he opened the Bible, prayed, read the word of God, preached in context. And that camp meeting was just dead silent. Just quiet. You could tell people were whispering, people are looking around, because he wasn't doing emotionalism. He was preaching the Bible in context, and it just didn't do it for that crowd. And I remember afterwards, people sitting around talking about that preacher and just saying, he didn't have the anointing, he didn't have the touch of God. Well, man, I think what he didn't have was emotionalism, and I think he did a better job that night of preaching the gospel than any of those other jokers that got everybody up yelling and screaming. So emotionalism is not the answer. And I'm telling you, JC you said it best, we could give Pentecostals a run for their money when it comes to camp meeting and brush arbor meetings and revival services. How many times, Brian, did you hear pastors and evangelists joke about being able to get them stirred up tonight by saying something? [00:40:07] Speaker A: Yeah, we'll get them fired up tonight, and you know the stories to tell. It's a learned behavior. But can I ask you guys a serious question as we wrap this up? [00:40:18] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:40:19] Speaker A: How sad is it that now in independent fundamentalism, a multi night, multi week emotional gathering is now called a revival? I'm leading up to a serious question, and I'm being completely serious when I ask you guys this. So you can tell the nights that the evangelist doesn't have a message, because that's the night they're going to sing. That's the night they're going to pull out the emotional stories. And so everybody ends up saying, as you said a moment ago, Nathan, which was, man, absolutely spot on, everybody leaves saying, those are the best nights. So I want to ask, what do you do with this? So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. What do you do with this? How then shall they call on Him whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? Can I ask you a question? How is it on these nights when there's no preaching, there's just a cluster of traditional, highly emotional songs and a couple of very heart wrenching, gut wrenching type stories told? How is it those are the nights when they have all of these salvations taking place, if there's legitimately lost people in the room who need to hear the gospel and faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. In the absence of the word of God, who is it going forward? It's the people who have been mentally trained to understand that environment and believe that they need to respond in that kind of moment. Do you guys agree with that? [00:42:24] Speaker B: Absolutely. Yeah. It's a problem in the church, and I feel sorry for the poor pastors that go to these meetings, and then they have to go back home with their people and they have to try to duplicate that because everybody doesn't have CT's gift. Everybody doesn't have Dr's gift. Everybody can't get people stirred up. I don't have that gift of doing altar calls and making everybody get saved for the twelveTH time. Everybody doesn't have that gift. So this guy who's just faithfully preaching the gospel, who's actually discipling people, who's actually having relational ministry and sharing the gospel with people in his neighborhood and community pastors that are truly doing the work of a shepherd, they go back feeling like they have to be some big name evangelist to be able to pastor their church. And that's just not what it's about. Brian, you've said this before and I'm going to quote you. You said something like this. It diminishes the gospel. When we have to stir it up, when we have to add to it, it diminishes the gospel. [00:43:34] Speaker A: Yes, sir. And I just want to say this in all honesty. If I take a group from the congregation I serve and they hear one guy, one time and the majority of my choir and the majority of my deacon board and the majority of my Sunday school teachers go up to get saved and I say that with air quotes, I think I'm going to go home and resign. Because if I lack that much discernment so that I make all of these people's leaders among the congregation and if I faithfully preach God's word over and over and over and over and over and over and over again and then they hear this one guy one time, and all of my leaders go forward to be saved. Then I must not be qualified to do what I'm doing. Or Pastor, if you're listening, maybe you ought to rethink what the other guy's doing. [00:44:39] Speaker B: Yeah. Amen. I think we're fighting for change from the outside and I love that. I'm arm to arm with you guys and we are doing battle. We're at war in some areas of Christendom. But I want to ask some IFB, Pastors, because I know a lot of them are listening, you guys can make a change from the inside. Start preaching the Bible in context. The gospel is the power of God to salvation, not an evangelist, not emotionalism. It is the gospel. Preach the gospel, preach the Bible in context and trust the Holy Spirit to do what the Holy Spirit can only do. [00:45:23] Speaker C: Guys, this has been an incredible conversation and I love when we just get around and just start talking. I mean, that's what I love about the RFP is we can just talk for hours on end about this stuff. We're going to continue this conversation next week. Before we go, we want to remind you that we are going to Israel. There's a few spots left. Pastors, you can go to Recoveringfundamentalist.org, click on the Israel tab and sign up. Go with us to Israel. That trip is filling up and we are super excited about getting back to Israel. We've got a meet up coming up November 3 and fourth in Asheville, North Carolina. We're going to do some singing, do some preaching, do some hanging out, some eating. It's going to be a great meetup. It's free, no registration. Just get to Asheville, North Carolina on November 3 and Fourth and hang out with us. [00:46:16] Speaker A: Also, make sure and go to the Recoveringfundamentalist.org and sign up for the behind the Mic it is feature that we're offering now. It's only $10 a month. You get unedited raw RFP recordings, all the humor, all the back and forth, the mistakes and the behind the mic conversations that don't necessarily make it to the episodes. And here's the thing. For $10 a month, you can know that you are supporting some guys who are planting churches. They are on the front lines of the gospel. These guys believe what they're saying on this podcast. They're putting into action what they preach on this podcast. And you can support God's work and know all three of us a little bit better by seeing us behind the mic. [00:47:09] Speaker C: Yeah, you can sign up today, go to recoveringfundamentalist.org. And that's where you can do everything that we've talked about on this episode today. Guys, this is a great conversation. Looking forward to continuing this on next week. [00:47:22] Speaker B: Thank y'all. [00:47:23] Speaker C: Have a good week. [00:47:25] Speaker A: Be sweet. [00:47:27] Speaker B: Peace. [00:47:28] Speaker C: Thanks for listening to the Recovering Fundamentalist Podcast. Be sure to stop by our social media, Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. Give us a follow. Also go to our website, recoveringfundamentalist.org. That's recoveringfundamentalist.org. There you can find recovering fundamentalist swag. You can get your t shirts and hats. You can join our X Fundy community, see where we're going to be having some meetups. It's the recoveringfundamentalist.org. Be sure to join us next time for the Recovering Fundamentalist Podcast.